Proximity to the Hole

[Bigdadenergy]

I think something I see the most when playing with people at all levels is the inability to have realistic expectations when it comes to proximity to the hole. I’m guilty of it, too. So often we hit an approach 20 feet from the hole and we walk away disappointed we didn’t stiff it. I get it. But below is a chart of the best players in the world and their percentages from different distances inside different proximities.

I think this is a must look that will help so many of us manage or expectations and keep our emotions in check on the course.

Credit: Scott Fawcett and Lou Stagner

[CoryO]

I like it. Get it to 20’ from 150 yards out? Give yourself a high five, you’re inside the average pro proximity for that one.

[jon]

@LouStagner and @ScottFawcettDECADE are really good at explaining these parts of the game in a way that not many others are doing. I’m hoping to collaborate with them more on PG!

[okiwiz]

On the green is not good enough. Today 3 putt 7 by being pin high but on the wrong side of the green with a lightning fast putt down a step. 4 putted 16 again wrong side on a two tier green and 3 putted 17 on in reg but leaving myself a monster putt. At my course there are holes where you need to hit to the correct side of the green. On these holes I am better missing the green and chipping to the hole than hitting the wrong side of the green and leaving myself impossible putts. Today only hit 2 greens in regulation for 1birdie, one 3 putt bogey but on the other holes 8 up and downs(only 1 par). I say hit it close or miss the green. If I am 175 yards out I cant get there. I can’t hit a 7i that far. That will be 2 shots for me. My max range is 140-150m Any more than a 7i I struggle to get the ball in the air. Probably because my in to out path hoods the club.

[Bigdadenergy]

I’m gonna disagree with all of this.

Yes being on the correct side of the hole is ideal, but are you telling people to intentionally miss greens because sometimes the putts are hard? I can’t get on board with that.
If you’re missing the part of the green you should be on for easier putts, chances are you’re not going to miss the green in the “right” area either.
A bad chip is always worse than a bad putt.

I have never and will never miss the green intentionally.

[okiwiz]

I am not saying I play to miss greens but that I would be better off missing the green than be on the wrong side. Even if I miss on the wrong side my worst chip is always better than my worst putt. 9 one putts in my round today and 51 chip ins in 276 rounds.

[papageorgio]

@okiwiz

You really should forget about the pin or trying to get on the “correct” side of the green. The data is pretty clear that amateurs are better off putting vs. chipping (assuming equal length).

The #1 thing driving the avg. amount of shots to hole out is proximity (assuming you aren’t in a bunker or hazard).

It’s hard to internalize but keep selecting middle green, back yardage and accept the randomness !

[papageorgio]

This is a great chart. Thanks for sharing

[Craigers]

Honesty, I’m a significantly better chipper than I am a putter… the conclusion for me was to become a better putter.

Though I still believe their are times when a miss off the green is better than a miss on the green… I’ve given this example elsewhere, but the second hole of my course is a par 3 with a bunker right, a ridge in the middle and a large green. If the pin is on the left side, it is far better to miss left (and off the green) than miss right… as a right miss will end up rolling out significantly and bring 3 putt into play for even the best of putters… even then though, my “target” is the middle of the left side, not the left edge.

If I ended up in a high stakes game tomorrow and had to decide to miss to an uphill chip vs a downhill putt, I’d probably pick the chip RIGHT NOW… but I also understand that’s not a long term optimal strategy.

I think, ultimately, the key to improving at golf is figuring out where your weaknesses are and shoring them up… For me, I’m spending less time chipping and more time putting… I haven’t tracked my stats, but I’m probably an above average chipper (I know I’m a below average putter). Ideally, I’ll combine the two and have a great short game all around…

[davep043]

I don’t think anyone would suggest that missing greens is good, but many times is a good idea to shift your aim based on where real “trouble” lies. If its nearly impossible to two-putt from above the hole, my aim would shift toward “below the hole”. I want to hit the green, but hit it in a good location.
My home club has a number of two-tier greens and others with sloping sections. There are times when, even though I’m on the green, I’m thinking “no more than three putts”. I know I can’t get it close, I want to make sure I hit my first putt to a location where two more is almost assured. There are places where being off the green in the right spot is absolutely better than being on the green in the wrong spot.

[Kevomanc]

I do think it’s rare, but my home course has situations where missing the green in the right spot may be a better choice. Most of our greens are fairly small and some are severely sloped. Unless you can hit that perfect shot with spin you’ll be chipping any way and perhaps not from where you want to be. We have one green that you can honestly only use about 1/3 of it. It will repel any shot not hit in the right 1/3 of it and you’ll likely end up in the hazard. The larger landing spot is short of the green. Unless they bomb a drive most players shoot for short right of the green and hope for friendly bounce on. We have a few greens like this that are so severely sloped that the middle of the green is not always a good target…I still struggle with this even though I’ve been there nearly 3 years lol

[Gisclairj]

I totally agree with you here, especially because chipping is my Achilles heel. I would much rather putt even if if the green, use my hybrid to putt from a long distance, knowing I’ll get it much closer than chipping. Of course with stats like @okiwiz (51) chip-ins, I’d probably prefer to chip too. But I do agree, missing the green seems preposterous to do intentionally. But that’s what makes golf the game it is. No two people play it the same way.

[Bigdadenergy]

Obviously, but statistically speaking, probably 99% of the time on the green is better than off the green.

[davep043]

Agree. Every situation is different, its important to use all available information in making a choice, but the starting point for the decision-making is “Putting is better than chipping”

[papageorgio]

This is covered by the concept of risk/reward around proximity to hazards… understand your post but just using some of the language from DECADE and Lowest Score Wins

We want to be as close to the pin as possible without risking a penalty strokes. We have to think about the entire shot zone and then select our target based on that shot zone

We can’t let anecdotal 3 putts influence this. The issue with the 4 putt scenario you described is the combination of a really tough greens AND the lack of proximity

I’ll take the hardest 10 ft putt on your course vs a flat 40 ft lag any day of the week… the stats tell us I am much more likely to get the 10 ft putt down in 2

[papageorgio]

Two different concepts are being discussed here:

1. I am better at chipping than putting

2. really tricky green setups may affect proximity and or penalties (two tier green that feeds away from certain pin locations

In response to point #1, the data clearer tells us that you need to get your ball as close to the pin as possible while avoiding hazards. There is a very reliable algorithm you can use when looking at a green on satellite and comparing your shot pattern that will show you how to pick the best target

In response to #2, sometimes we do adjust our aim because a very tricky green is BASICALLY A HAZARD THAT KILLS PROXIMITY

A back pin with a severe fall off into junk behind the green makes us biased for a middle green yardage

Water on the left side of the green may have us shift our target off the right side of the green if it’s especially narrow.

There’s an optimal target for each approach shot and you have to kind of accept the randomness. Sometimes this means getting a really bad break on tricky green and having an extremely challenging two putt

Unfortunately you have to accept that cause we are concerned with the average score of ALL OF OUR SHOTS from a given target

[papageorgio]

For example, I play a par 3 with water right (like 12 at Augusta, green runs away and right from a rh golfer) and it is a small green that is very steep in spots (two tiers)

Regardless of where they put the pin, I aim at the saddle, on the left edge. Sometimes I get lucky with my dispersion and end up on the correct tier, often I do not. But there is no “good miss” because at the end of the day my dispersion is too large to pick 1/2 of the green and I have to steer clear of the hazard to make my lowest avg score over the long term

[okiwiz]

Played again today. 14th hole 420m Par 5. Uphill for about 200m then dogleg left downhill then uphill to green. Wormburner drive about 160m,hooking 7i so low that after 50m it was on the ground running, 6i to about 60m with a two tier green back to front and a drop off over the back. Missed the green right by about 1m with my sw and in lite rough on the edge of going over, Chipped 1 ball width to the right of the hole to just land on to a close pin and it went in for par. 52 chip ins or once every 5.32 rounds. I chip from everywhere, even the edge of the green. Sometimes my playing partners can’t believe I am not using putter but are then amazed by my ability to hit dainty chips. People who watch me say I use a putting stroke with my sw. I have my hands forward and keep my left wrist flat not letting the club pass my hands. Having my hands forward takes out the risk of blading the ball as when the club passes the hands it presents with the leading edge off the ground due to the bounce of the club. For me it is a struggle to know how big a swing to putt on a putter vs chipping where I can pick a spot and visualize how it will roll to the hole. Then I am good enough to hit soft chips that land on or nearly on the spot. Chipping is the only part of my game I practice and is the part of my game that gets me out of trouble and saves me the most strokes. Best round was 1 chip in and 11 1putts for 24 putts. Especially when my best ball striking round is about 5-6 greens in regulation. Usual round 2-3 gir. Takes the pressure of having to hit greens away.

[Gisclairj]

I’m going to have to call you Phil @okiwiz

[okiwiz]

Not even close. He does it every hole not just once every 5.32 rounds! Seriously Phil uses a completely different technique that I can’t even begin to try to imitate. Lob shots are not my forte. My specialty is the bump and run.