Well,
Aside from generating opportunities for all the practicing attorneys. Our customary way of running these cases through the judicial system is way too “loose”.
Not trying to take food from other’s mouth; there should have been a way to at least investigate if the potential plaintiff have the smidgen of chance of winning their case. There should be a punitive system for the plaintiff and their representing attorney to pay back for blocking the court schedule and wasting of tax payers’ money. Just to make sure they do their due diligence before they jump off the cliff.
This is the only place on earth where people can bring law suit wantonly without consequences.
Why not? If the opportunity is offered to you for “free” supposedly? We see that everyday on the advertising on media.
Someone has been learning; LIV had picked up quite a bit of wave on the social media. Probably through some paid flag wavers.
I wonder how much would they pay these flag wavers? 5 figures? 6 figure? nice way to pick up some change before it goes belly up.
The resistance from the members of the PGA stands tall; they will not play if the suspended golfers are back to play the regular events through injunction of the temporary suspension without due course!
And I think it’s only right!
I am confused!
If, the PGA is run by it’s members, which is the players essentially. Why could Norman even be able to lure players to the LIV. Money? I get that.
Number TWO; as apparently, Tiger Woods is going to persuade PGA players to join another elite Tour? WTF.
Now why would he want to do that? He is not as smart as we thought he was. As evident as his behavior throughout the years after his father’s passing.
The membership of top players who are supporting the PGA Tour are trying to toss around ideas that can combat the dollars being offered by the Arabs. Nothing in stone, but, in reality, there is no way to combat Billions of dollars. The players who stay are doing so out of conscience, morals and wanting to compete with players of the highest caliber. If you think, Bryson, Brooks, DJ and even Cam are truly the best amongst the elite? Well I think there is a strong argument against that. And if the majors and OWGR ice out the LIV players they will just have to be satisfied with the cash. Not horrible, but you won’t cement yourself into greatness playing on that Tour. I give the PGA Tour players A for effort. We’ll see how it leads
Efforts to try to match up with the LIV in monetary rewards is not going to work and also against the tradition . Tradition is part of the charm in this sport. Take that away, then there is not much left.
Golf is already offering a pretty high level of potential income comparing to other professional sports. NBA, NFL, MLB, now MLS.
If minimum of $1 million + annual income is not enough, then, would the World be enough? NO !
The excess in reward is not always good for the sports and the players involved. Not many could balance the wealth and purpose in life. Not every one could be the top player of the sports, as there should be just one spot on the very top. I see the common theme of this game solely owned by monetary reward. This is why so many young athletes turned to this sports instead of the other choices.
To what level should the fans support the sports they love? Never in the history, had we had anything close to the current level of supporting for the professional sports. The media had turned every household into a Roman Colosseum with shows of gladiators and exotic animal weekly.
How many Ferrari in the garage should satisfied a professional golfer’s desire? How large a super yacht should they have? Some of these are already over the level a Royal family’s own. All of these come from the value the fans gave them.
Without the support from the fans, their commercial value is minimized. In other words, not sellable, worth less. Taking the quick money from the LIV proved only one thing, they had realized that their commercial value have diminished over the years.
The LIV is destroying the sport as we know it. They’re not Santa, they spend 2 billions, in hope they’ll make 10 folds or a hundred fold of that in return. The supporting level of this sport has plateaued over the last few centuries; I don’t believe anyone could press more juice out of the already pressed orange. What they might achieve is destroying the old value, abandon the ship when there is nothing left.
New money can never replace the value in the history and the tradition of golf.
This sport is unlike any other which the new is not equal to better. Someone is out to destroy what had been guilt up in the last couple of centuries. If I am a fan of this sport, I will not support the LIV in any shape or form.
Some adjustment from within the PGA should be considered; I would only think to caution that “changes is not always good for the future of the sports”.
Beware of all the new exposure on the social platform about the LIV; they are gearing up their propaganda through media since their initial launch of their “tournament play” was a failure.
Who would spend the time to witness/stream some guys making insane amount of money shooting scores like they had posted?
I won’t have time for that. Their supposed new 2023 tournament format will be very close to the current format used by the PGA and the R&A, then, why bother. They’ll be slapping their own face by trying to take over the sport , doing similar format.
They won’t have the support from most of the golf fans, including yours truly.
I didn’t find the detail of Norman’s proposal to the PGA ( his fellow members) back in 1994. I guess Davis would have the details of Norman’s proposal back then.
If this is true, then, LIV Tour is what Norman proposed back in 1994 or similar to it. The one carry the flag should be rewarded but, just how deep they wish to be compensated? If they have more than one ass to sit in the seat of a super sports car or more than one stomach to hold all the delicate food this world could offer… Okay in that case.
Then, what was Norman talking about the PGA adapted “his idea” without recognizing him?
I have many ideas, although not as complete as some of the existing, working models, should I find sponsors to start a new business model?
Ridiculous! Totally self centered. I guess he did not go through his education properly, probably was not socializing in the playground of his kindergarten neither.
Most PGA golfers play the PGA Tour so they won’t have to play the PGA Tour. It is truly the land of Have and Have Nots. The PGA Tour is a grind. IMO, the only sport that comes close to this grind is Pro Baseball. It’s like there really is no off season. The guys on Tour and the guys aspiring to be on TOUR grind 16 hours a day, every day. It is only the rare few that don’t have to grind 16…for them more like 10 or 12 hours. The average Pro is like a +4 and that’s on tough, tough tracks. So you get to scratch or +1… you’re just a very good PGA Class A Professional. Your game is just not good enough. The top 125 make well over a total of $1M a year which is a great living, but if you are a family man… that’s a tough grind. The only way you can possibly get better is to grind out more practice to perfect what you have as a game. CAMEL TOUR…well not so much. Quick…who won the Masters in 1957? Who won the Open in 1967? It’s all relative. We all work to make it better for our families, but eventually, you get to a point when you ask young guys… who was Cary Middlecoff or JImmy Demaret or Julius Boros. It’s all relative. Someone offers a boatload of money… gosh darn… you can’t turn it down. Now, what’s the long term viability of the Camel Tour… There is NO WAY they can make enough $$$ to be self sustainable, there won’t be a gigantic TV contract, Golf is a minor sport on the world level…Soccer is way bigger! From a players perspective, I’m making big bux, even the poorer players are making way more than they would on the Tour, but no recognition, no high visibility playing. That’s the deal you make selling your soul to money. The mutineer players don’t have to grind that hard anymore, checks are in the bank, 54 holes and a beer and another check just for showing up. But what you are giving up is your moment in the spotlight during your era. Lefty made $95M on Tour over 30years. He made 1.5 times that much in a signature… for a 4 or 5 year contract. Pat Perez hasn’t won since 2017… He made $10M in a signature when he’s at a point where he probably would never make another cut in a PGA Tour sanctioned event. I’ll leave it to the players and the PGA Tour membership to hash something out. The integrity of the the professional game is at stake. Remember, professional golfers were looked down upon when the game first began, It wasn’t until the early 1900’s that the professional was truly recognized as the gold standard. I enjoy watching the play of these guys, PGA, DP, Champions and LPGA. I get up every Saturday before my round and while I’m stretching and getting ready I have the DP on! I tried to watch a LIV event and I just didn’t like the coverage. Just wasn’t my thing. I do believe the PGA Tour membership needs to go back to the drawing board on how to draw up the season ending events and points and cuts. Maybe the cuts have a minimum payout. who knows? The PGA though cannot compete on a dollars and cents measure to the CAMEL Tour, but they need to capitalize more on the events people watch… The Majors, the big Tourneys, (Players, Memorial, Bay Hill etc) The competitions events, The World Championships events. That’s their only leverage.
I really don’t get onboard with the idea that being a pro golfer is a ‘grind’ getting up every day at 6:00 to do a job you hate to barely be able to feed your kids is a grind. Doing what 99.99% of players do for a hobby for $, sorry, that’s a good gig.
Away from home a lot? Your choice. Out on the range for hours on end, then to the gym, same.
And even if you only make a profit of a few thousand (as per the lowest on the earnings lists) and need to drop down to teaching, punditry whatever you are still making a living doing what you love.
The guys on LIV seem to have lost sight of that and focusing just on the money, screw the game, screw the fans, the screw the events that got them there in the first place. DJ bad mouthing events saying how pleased he is to not have to play them is sickening
Being that good in any competitive sport at its highest level is a grind, I know you and me play for fun, for those guys it’s a grind. It’s a tough grind and it’s getting tougher. The talent pool is very strong. All these guys all swing the same, they all have the advantage of great teaching tools and immediate feedback. So it comes back to short game and putting. Look, I gave up a lot just making a living to keep my family afloat and fed and in clothes and providing a college education for my 2 kids. Now I’m re-saving for my grandkids. I have alot regrets about missing BD Parties, family events etc, because my job required me to be there instead of home. Now, alot less, so I’m home a bit more now and because my wife is fighting a disease, it’s very good that I am. You can say your choice to be away, or to travel or to do anything, I’m not going to disagree, but for a guy that has some extraordinary talent, the only way to develop and nurture that is the grind, family suffers. I know this first hand! I don’t blame anyone for taking the cash. Let’s not kid ourselves, the guys on the Camel Tour have probably seen better days playing extremely high level good golf. I don’t get the griping, I do understand the frustration of having your cake and eating it too so to speak. The DJs want to play in the Masters etc. There’s the choice… Give that up to live really, really large or not. It hasn’t truly sunk in yet that in this world currently you will not be allowed to do both.
These guys still enjoy the game, but you’re correct. It’s very different playing a relaxed round with friends vs. grinding away during competition.
These guys all have the talent and paid their dues. They ALL have the “tools” to advance the golf balls at the very high level.
The difference is as we know it, between the ears. As Palmer. Nicklaus, T.W. all have the extraordinary concentration and determination to see that their skill gets fully used.
Rory lost the Open this year not just because the other guy sunk every putt he looked at but also Rory was playing conservatively on a day which was calm and dry, without showing all the teeth it could have offered. I also question the move of the spreading someone’s ash on the 18th green before the final day of the competition. It should never be allowed at such time in such fashion.
Making the right decision on the golf course would be as important as being able to advance the golf ball.
It is clear that most, if not all of these ship jumpers to LIV had thought about the consequences of their action before the act on it. Don’t say that you want to play the Masters ( D.J.) knowing your action will forfeit the invitation. Just like the lying of “it’s not for the money”. Then what was it?
Davis Love III said it very clear, the format suggested by Norman long ago and what they’re doing on the LIV now ( soon to be changed), was to let the top players take all the money. It is not healthy for the organization and not allowing the newbies to have a chance to grow. As no one stays in their top form in this game for too long owing to the early injury brought on by the scientific ways to explore and to maximize the performance. New comers are just as important as the ones holding the flags now.
Norman had a bad injury with a chain saw so his dream of dominating the Champion’s Tour is but over. He had this chance to secure his retirement, and he took it, disregard that his action would have ruine the effort built up by many in the last century and all of those currently still on all of the professional Tours. Basically, he wants to take the whole pie -his own way. Be the king of the playground in the school yard no matter if the others would be hurt. He does not care if he kill the game.
The LIV is more visible with all the media in recent days which is what they should have done at the beginning. Lots of support ( bought for or not ).
However, it is what it is, and facts never lie.
There are always the ignorant and the misinformed in all walks of life. We might just sit back and enjoy the soap opera.
Episode 2 might be interesting as the cry babies think making minimum of 1 million annually is not enough for them for hitting little white balls around.
Not just a grind physically demanding. On the level of the Tour, it’s tolling on the mind. With a sport in which a single stroke separate the winner and the runner-up.
So many professional golfer been voicing of the stress on the Tour could be overwhelming. They still love the game and enjoy time with friends or even with stranger for a casual round of golf. Competition on the highest level is not the same.
For most of us, this taxing and demand of mind for prolonged period of time will be more than a grind. It’s not like golf on Thursday and when done, one could relax and have dinner , have a nice rest to get ready for the Friday. It stays with you until it’s done and immediately onto the next stop. Nicklaus prepare for the majors years ahead of it’s time by studying the golf course, eat and sleep with the preparation. That’s why he would lay off golf completely during the Winter months, then start anew each Spring. Bobby Jones would lose 15-20 lb. of his body weight after a day of grinding away on the golf course; you think most of it caused by stress?
It’s very different than us dreaming of getting out on the golf course next sunny weekend.
So the PGA Tour has been luring the best players in the world here for years with the chance to make more money, but now that another Tour is trying to lure the best players away with more money it’s wrong? C’mon.
It’s easy to say it’s wrong when no one is offering you a chance at a huge payday. Heck I think they should all stay amateurs and keep the game completely pure!
It is wrong if they try to change the spirit of the game to mostly motivated by monetary reward. IMHO it is also wrong to try to change the format of this game. There is nothing needing to be modern about it.
The most recent announcement of T.W & R.M. spearhead for the PGA new “stadium golf format” was a surprise to me.
Instead of upholding the value. The PGA gave in and try to catch up with the “new” trend. I think it will be a mistake.
While at the same time the LIV is changing it’s current format to something to be announced for the 2023 season? Why bother? Golf does not need a change of color for the next season then every season afterward. It is already a handful for the common folks to follow and drill on for their lifetime. Not a fashion show.
But who knows? I am only familiar with my own standard of value and I’m not easily changed over to the new standard without the test of time.
I can careless of what these guys do, who are already making insane amount of money ( and still not satisfied ).
All I care is how high the daily green fee will climb. Still want to golf 2-3 times a week after retirement without sacrificing other matters in life.
It looks like while the professional are making income at unheard level; most the common folks could not enjoy golf after retirement like it used to.
Great comment. Totally true for guys on their first deal.
I think that’s a massive over simplification.
For many the money isn’t the issue, frankly I don’t care how much anyone earns, but when Cam Smith won The Open did anyone go, ‘look he just made $x’ or ‘wow, he won a major’? The PGA has a lot more to it than money, LIV doesn’t.
The source of LIV’s funds is morally dubious to be polite (I know some PGA money is too but its not all of it and two wrongs don’t make a right).
The behavior of the LIV players, post payday has been appalling. DJ’s comments were beyond distasteful, to the point that you think he doesn’t mean them, he is lashing out because he knows he has done wrong.
And that’s before you even get into the LIV product, which so far is just garbage.
So far I agree the LIV product is garbage. I have watched maybe 10 minutes and had zero interest. Plus if they can’t secure some sort of tv time beyond YT I think it really falls apart. My point is that players following the money is nothing new. I don’t remember the R&A and DP whining when their best players moved here. The PGA Tour hasn’t lost their best players and they are crying foul. Let them go, who cares?
I find it amusing that everyone has a problem with golfers taking money from the Saudis, but they don’t care enough to complain about buying their oil and selling them weapons. That’s where they choose to take a stand? SMH
You’re better than most, which you spent 10 minutes streaming the LIV. Assuming you would not view it in person for 10 minutes only. My golf buddies and myself didn’t bother to stream the LIV.
There is nothing wrong with chasing the money as the society is made to be motivated by the digital numbers. The difference is taking the free hand out without having to earn it AND in the meantime, hurting the other members in the same place which you had just left. The place which gave you the status which enabled you to get the free handout.
The LIV boasted it has the backing from oil money. Don’t be confused about how much the wealth is and will be committed to their cause.
The seed money of reported 2 billion is not even totally on the table to be freely handed out. Most of the seed money is committed to the appearance bonus already; to extract addition funding will need proof that the LIV could show evidence of break even or even make profit in the near future.
If anyone believes the funding is bottomless and free flowing to a project like a blackhole, then, you’ll also believe in Santa Claus is real.
I’m certain those who jumped ship had thought about the consequences thoroughly before they act upon it, unless they were mislead by lies and not smart enough to look behind the smoke screen.
One thing is for sure, the players who switched knew full well that their action will hurt the other members of the PGA, and the golf industry in general.
Don’t even believe for a second that the interest from the backer of the LIV is to better the sports. Their involvement in professional golf and skirt industries has no noble motive but as investing and grow their wealth. Saudi sovereign wealth fund will grow to be 3 trillion by 2030 as reported. It seems to a huge number, however, if we look at that would be their total and complete wealth when the oil runs dry, the desert will produce nothing else. For the Nation, it would not last beyond a century. They had been extending their investment into ever facets of our life which is available for public involvement. Any entity offers public equity/debt holding that shows a remote possibility of growth will have their money in it.
If, the LIV could not turn around to show promise to bring in profit when the seed money runs out, by then Norman will have a heck of a time asking for extension of credit for his dream to come true.
PGA is not wise to try to match the format the LIV is leading. There is simply not compatible between a horse and an elephant.
But the hose can run faster, to stay on track.
It’ll be foolish to fall into their trap by trying to match their action because they can recover with their backings and PGA probably will be hurt a lot more if the change won’t work.
Well close to a Billion of the “seed monies” was supposed to entice Tiger Woods over. That obviously didn’t happen, and now The Great White Guppy says we didn’t offer him that much. Whom do you believe? And, Tiger has been known to let’s say not be on the side of truth when it came to his women correct? I do believe this is a storm. I do think we will end up with a better, more exciting PGA Tour product in the end. I know ticket prices are going to up, I would bet advertising $$$ are going to be more expensive on the PGA Tour. At this point, I’m not seeing the market for this Rival Tour. I mean can it exist if they work it out sure…It could be an even better seed tour if they wanted to set it up that way. BUT, if not and you want to go into direct competition… it’s going to go the way of the USFL or the ABA. It’ll make it’s impact and just get absorbed. I mean if you wanted to play nice…the LIV could just do the world championships and add a couple more. Everyone makes the cut in those events and insted of 50 players, make it the top 100.
Honestly I’d be more tempted to see a LIV event in person if there was one nearby and tickets were reasonable. Watching it on YT was a pain (1st world pain) as it wasn’t available at times for some reason.
I can’t really get into it. I have no idea what the teams are or who is on which team. Also there is enough golf on tv that I can watch more easily. I have watched some of the ladies & mens Am tournaments recently along with the PGA Tour. Maybe when I am retired I’ll watch more golf, but hopefully then I’ll have more time to play.
You hit it on the point. The streaming is not ideal, the format is confusing ( might be confusing to the organizer cause it’s so new ).
The ticket price reported to be higher than the PGA events.
It was in Portland a month ago; I did not bother to driver 3+ hours to see it. Because I hate to learn the new format and now, the LIV announced that they will change the current format to a new kind in 2023.
It just seem disorganized. Like someone trying to jam down the whole course of a buffet in one session. It proves that some thing could not be rushed.
I don’t see anything worth awhile for my time, online or in person. One good thig they have is the possible support of a financial backing which needs reassuring for future success to continue its support.