I guess my point is that this is a problem with the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law… He didn’t break any rules, even if he broke the spirit of them… He’s not going to pick up any new fans, but that seems like it was unlikely to happen anyways.
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The problem really is that we don’t know if he broke the law or not, he very well could’ve but there’s no way to prove it. He even said himself that if the ball bounces there’s no way it can be embedded, well we all saw it bounce and him poking around in the dirt and surprisingly they seem to find indents in the ground…TBH I thought he talked himself into a hole during the interview. Golf is a game of integrity and there are several situations where a rules official has to just take the word of the player. Even the tournament director was dancing around when asked if what he did was right the answer was “he was entitled to do what he did”, clearly not very comfortable. P Reed’s reputation is bad and will only get worse due to this, a shame because he’s a good player and I do enjoy watching him play.
I get the whole use the rules to your advantage - but that doesn’t cover lying to do so. There is no doubt that ball wasn’t plugged so no matter how appropriately he followed protocol doesn’t change the fact that he got agreement from the official on something that was clearly not true. Whether he made the hole himself or found another spot to point to. Just a complete joke and everyone knows it.
He even said “if it bounces it’s virtually impossible to plug” - I’m going out on a limb but I’m thinking 4 inch rough isn’t the one off place it’s going to plug
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He’s a cheater and will always be such. There is no way around it, he cheated again. I can’t wait to hear what other guys on tour have to say about it.
Rory hit a ball on 18 that bounced, and Rory determined that it had embedded after the bounce. No Official involved. Was Rory cheating, is it impossible that his ball plugged? Did Rory also push the ball deeper before picking it up? The nearest camera was a long way away, we don’t know what he did. In contrast, Reed had the camera over his shoulder the entire time, and did get an official to confirm. If one of them is a “cheater”, which one is more likely? No official, camera 100 yards away, or official confirmation, close camera footage the entire time?
I think each one followed the rules and did the right thing.
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Didn’t see Rory situation. Would hold him to same standard if all is the same.
Your standard is that “there is no doubt that the ball wasn’t plugged”. So by that standard, Rory is a cheat.
Did his ball bounce? If so I need to see how the ball could possibly plug but yea would say he was wrong as well.
Glad reed won by more than 1
I would logically think that a ball that bounced at least once could never embed, but I’ve seen it happen, although we get a lot more rain here in New England than they get in CA. I get why people don’t want to believe Reed, but the Rules Officials say he was within the rules. I’m not sure Rory even called in a Rules Official. At the least this is a good example of why you shouldn’t be “that guy” like Reed because you won’t get the benefit of the doubt while someone like Rory will.
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The video of Rory’s shot isn’t as clear so really hard to tell with the bounce. Definitely “seemed” like his could have gone back down into it’s own original pitch mark as compared to Reed’s which clearly bounced forward.
I don’t think the calling of the official really does anything to help Reed’s case that it was plugged other than show it wasn’t obvious to him that it was. If it was clearly plugged there’s no need to call an official (this is what Rory claimed - he had no doubt it was plugged). It helps him to get immunity on the call since the official “agreed” but no idea how the official can agree when the ball wasn’t there in its original position.
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From what i heard with all of this is that when he lifted it, they felt like he put it behind him instead of showing the bottom of the ball where you would be able to see mud on the ball from it embedding. They were saying he was palming the ball.
The palming of the ball is a different issue - if you pick the ball up to check it for embedding, marking it when off the green for another player, or any other reason to pick up the ball off of the green (outside of lift/clean/place or a free drop) - you cannot change the condition of the ball (can’t clean it) until you are confirmed for a drop. In most cases, you’ll see players pick it up with 2 fingers and hold it out away from them the whole time to show everyone they’re not doing anything to the ball.
In Reed’s case he palmed it (a no-no when there was doubt in his mind as to whether or not it was embedded) so that’s not right. Also, in his post round interviews he said that he put the ball off to the side (effectively trying to say he followed the rules and didn’t clean it) when he clearly palmed it which is wrong.
Once it was deemed embedded, he could clean it before taking his drop. But clearly he didn’t follow the steps as he himself explained so “perfectly” after his round.
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I think that kid will learn the importance of repairing your divots. I play at least once a week (or did prior to covid) in the summer 2 or 3 times. I’m not great but hit about 45% of fairways and I can count just 3 times where I felt my ball had settled into someone else’s divot and the last time it got me really focused on hitting down that I played the best approach of my round! (not a high bar I admit). Winter rules here allow for ‘preferred lies’ which deals with this anyway.
In reality I don’t think this is such a big deal and the amount of time arguing about if its a divot, an animal scrapping, alien landing marks etc will just delay the group behind. Play it as it lies is a fundamental part of golf, its an outdoor sport so good and bad luck play a part.
Need my man @davep043 to help me out here…I know you aren’t allowed to break branches or move limbs other than to take what is a normal stance. Also, I believe I remember that you can’t break the limbs during practice swings either. I can’t find the reference to this rule, can you help me out, please.
Rule 8 talks about playing the course as you find it. In particular, taking a stance is covered in 8.1b(6), fairly taking a stance is specifically permitted, with some specific limitations. Practice swings, in my view, would be addressed in 8.1a, since you’re not actually taking your stance yet.
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the practice swing rule is one i’ve seen broken a million times (when I’m playing) and never seen or called someone out on it. I’m sure 99.999% of golfers don’t know the rule
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Yet if you watch enough televised golf, you’ll hear commentators talk about how careful players are not to break stuff with their practice swings. I think the vast majority of golfers don’t really care about rules, and even those who care don’t care enough to spend much time learning them. There are two basic fundamental rules: Play the course as you find it, play your ball as it lies. Breaking stuff with a practice swing violates one of those foundational rules. Its not a nuance, its not an exception to a larger principle, its so basic that I have a hard time to understand how anyone could be unaware, yet I know there are millions of unaware golfers.
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Thank you @davep043. I’m caddying for a guy who is relatively new to golf (3 years) and he’s already been to a bunch of qualifiers. I noticed he did this this weekend whilst casting for him. Nobody said anything but I knew it wasn’t right. I want to make sure I approach it with him so he doesn’t see himself out of an event for negligence. I also don’t want to get gun upset with me, so I wanted to make die I had the reference as a way to make sure I’m looking out for his best interest.
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I’m certainly not going to argue with your knowledge of the rules, but my guess is it’s strictly enforced on the tour to prevent people from taking a practice swing that “happens” to hit a branch that is unfriendly to the player…
If I were in a competitive round and someone accidentally broke a branch, I’d likely not call it if it did not actually help them on their next shot. I think it’s definitely a good rule to know and follow, though… and my competitive rounds are casual rounds at a club, not tournament play. (We can get into the morality of this decision if you want, I have a degree in philosophy collecting dust!)
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@Gisclairj, you’re a rare caddie if you know the rules well enough to help your player avoid unnecessary penalty strokes. Good for you!
@Craigers, I’m really unlikely to try to enforce it if someone accidentally breaks a branch. I might mention it later on, when its too late to have a penalty enforced, just to help someone learn the rules I’d probably be inclined to say it didn’t improve CATS (Conditions Affecting the Stroke), to make sure the player didn’t try to impose a penalty on himself after the fact. On the other hand, if someone purposely breaks a branch, I’d be inclined to say something immediately. As for morality, I’ll let you lead that discussion. I’m an engineer, philosophical thought is definitely not in my personal wheelhouse.
Its obvious to me that @openfacelefty touched a nerve in me, reading back at my response. I think he’s way wrong, saying that only one golfer in 100,000 is aware of the rule, but he’s trying to make excuses for the ignorance of a huge majority of players. I can understand new players not knowing the rules, but as I said, this one is simply stating one of the basic underpinnings of the game.
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