To me here’s what I see as the legitimate difference. I don’t know about you but I play in a couple outings every year to support some local causes. You pay $125 per man and have a shotgun start to get everyone on course at the same time. They have trophies and prizes and it’s mostly have a beer and just play. Then there’s like the association championships. You practice to play and do well to get your name on a wall and a trophy. It’s a lot more serious, play starts at #1 or #10 to accommodateet the size of the field. Camel tour is the former. If you think you are seeing everyone’s best golf you are fooling yourself. Do you really think Phil or DJ or Brooks has performance clauses. No they don’t. Do you think the venues are set to test skills? No they aren’t. Have you ever been to a LD contest. That’s what it seems like. So no, not interested! I’ll stick with more traditional forms of watching the sport. There’s a lot to choose from. Finally, if you think for one second I’m going to support Norman and the backers of this Rebel Tour and their reasons in doing it… No Way! That’s just my opinion
The tradition, the overladen rule everyone follows better than we follow the laws and regulations are tested with fire and time.
The sheep herders and the greens keepers love to have a good time on the golf course with some libation or spirit and some betting on the line. Rules developed from there, so there be no dispute over a bet of a few shillings. Which was a large sun back in the days where average person’s annual income was less than 100 schillings.
The weekend warriors play a different game than the professionals. The Tour outcome rides on tremendous amount of reward. Tell me if there is another sport which has over a million dollars in reward for a week’s work? Not to mention the endorsement.
Rule and regulations also laid out for the way to qualify to get in with this fantastic group playing for millions per week. No one will be excluded if qualify through the passage. Obviously, someone wanted to take this to another level, in their mind, sensationalism would work to win over the fans. It proved the golf fans are a little different than the average sporting fans.
As for whether Mickelson and D.J. and other have to abide by the “performance clause” in their contract or not, I have no inside information but I believe there be some clause related to if they’ll get the full promised sign up bonus and how they’ll receive it. The people run the finance for LIV’s backers are not ignorant , they had flexed their muscle in the business world like a 700 sounds gorilla.
Turn and churn is their motto as raiders for the business world. They have no care for the fans, the industry, and the impact of their action. They are out to get “it”.
It, meant the $$$. So, never think they are handing out free money. They are using the bait to lore in the whale.
They were ill prepared, in such a rush to get the show on the road so to speak. Using some of the lower ranked golfers to fill the roster to put on the show and kick them out as soon as more qualified golfers willing to take the bait. There is no qualifying nor dismissal passage any golfer could follow.
So, my guess is, there be something in Mickelson’s and the others contract as an escape clause. They will not let someone who has reoccurring injury issue to receive the full pay.
But, hey, even a partial of the publicized contractual amount is more than what those could have made on the PGA tour. They have to win more than 10 tournaments per year for the next 10-20 decades to even the promised $$$ from the LIV contract. Even at 20% of it is an amount they will never see being on the regular tour.
Simple math! I’m sure Mickelson had it all penciled out before he made the switch. Being a gambler, he is not too bad at running numbers, he just took way too much chances.
One more time my brother, I’m not begrudging the jumpers 1 dime or 1 penny. BUT, they knew what they were getting into. Loss of PGA playing privileges, loss of sponsorships for some, loss of accumulating OWGR points, loss of ability to pay in PGA/Euro/World events like Ryder or Presidents Cups, loss of playing privileges in majors. Including the Master’s because that is controlled by the Master’s committee and they can do as they wish. They knew going in. Then, as Mike Tyson used to say, you get punched in the face and reality sets in! I have no sympathy for them. I won’t follow the players nor the Tour period… Full Stop! That’s just my feeling! BUT these guys knew ahead of time what the deal was… Sorry… you are not welcome… there’s a bunch of players lined up to take your place and I’ll give them the chance!
Yes, of course. I agree and see it as where you stand.
A little birdie told me that some of these huge incentives advertised by the LIV to named golfers like Mickelson, D.L. … are not paid out in one lump sum. It’s an attempt to advertise the shinning of the lore and it worked.
Although 20% of a 200 million is? OMG 40 million. It’ll be in their dream that they could make this number in the remaining years of their professional life. No detail as how the balance will be panned out but each had a negotiated term.
They sold out their fellow golfers and the source which made them who they are. I don’t know.
I guess when one is talking of that kind fortune, it’s only a number.
Personally, I believe what does around will come around. May not be instantaneous karma, but it’ll get there.
As I expressed in the past. Should this turn out not a paying back situation, there be a lot of people who will be “given” the consequences.
Did anyone watch and listen to the interviews after todays matches. I like Max Homa, I think he’s a guy that has worked very hard. He has dug it up out of the dirt. He’s got a pregnant wife and I’d bet getting ready to be a dad. Just think very hard about what he did today in his first Prez Cup. I listened to him have “certain players “ say to him that if the Camel Tour didn’t take a few players, no way he’s good enough to make this team. Well 3 Birdies on 16. 17. 18 and his teams opponents made 2 outta 3 birdies down the last 3 holes. Talk about pressure, and he said he felt it too. Here’s the key to what he said. All the money in the world can’t buy that pressure, can’t buy the exhilaration of making those last 3 birdies. Finish out the day 3 in a row! Yes, he belongs. He belongs as much or more than Capt America. I don’t miss that whiner!
Sometimes, a diamond only need to remove the rocks above it in order to shine!
What I like about golf is, action speak louder than statement. Homa had shown everyone with his action and no statement could speak louder than that.
I would say that he was given this opportunity and he made the best out of it. Sometime we just need a break in life to open up the door for the future.
To show just how desperate the LIV is, at this stage, after the so called “tournament” did not attract golf fans to participate.
They are actually going to “pay for air time” to broadcast their “events” over the popular channels.
I guess the media could not prejudice from selecting the paying customers. There must not be enough “sponsors” to support the cost of airing the events.
More and more like a political campaign than a sports event. When a self paid air time will be often used as snack replenish time or used as a bathroom visiting time. However, I can’t imagine the LIV events will be as short as those political campaign air time.
Long break time for shower or meal prep time?
Lots of money if the LIV air the whole event over 3 days. Even with just one day, and an edited, archived version of the event will be hours? Or just a quickie like sports report to cramp in hours of event into minutes? Bet you it’ll not be a live coverage. Unless the funding party owns the media, and take a risk of losing revenue by airing the event.
I still won’t watch it! Not interested! The Dunhill and the Sanderson and the LPGA Walmart fulfilled my fix over the weekend. I’d rather watch Leave It To Beaver reruns before I even glanced at a Camel Tour event!
Well, Personally, I refuse to show support for the LIV simply because I do not agree with their way of abolishing the traditional way. New ideas might be good for many other things in life.
Not for the game of golf because the tradition is what holds a major part of it’s value, it’s attraction to me.
If one day the “new” style of governing the game took hold, it’ll be the day I go find other things to do.
New is not good in this case.
The scare of the equipment will make this game obsolete is not totally true. They had forgot one crucial element in the formula, which is the limitation of the physical ability from a human body.
Looking at the statistics of the last decade of injury resulting from the golf professional. Even with the great care taken by the top golfers from 3-4 generations ago still could not avoid the debilitating injury which is common these days.
For those who do not swing a golf club like the professional, we’re safe, the benefit of walking a golf course out-weight the potential fallbacks. Unless one put in a large number of rounds of golf each year.
I enjoy watching any good golf tournament but I will forego all of it if there is a conflict to the principals which are important to me.
I quit going to several close by golf courses because they tries to pretend to be something which they are not. Things like forbidding changing of shoes in the parking lot form the trunk, but they are a public daily fee golf facility and no locker room is available to the public. So, should a patron change to their golf shoes in a bathroom sitting on the commode? Ridiculous. I’d rather ride farther out to another golf course. Plus they’ll charge a cart fee even if the golfers chose to walk the golf course! To discourage the slow play? No, I take my pennies to other places. Even if this golf course is only 6 miles away from my house.
I can’t tell others to see my point of view but I can certainly control on my own side as a consumer and a golf fan.
I’ll not support the LIV until they get rid of Norman type of dictatorship and change the financial backing or do more charity related work and donations.
Never say never, But it’ll take a lot of evolving for them to have me consider giving them support as a golf fan.
I have 4 major issues with the Camel Tour: #1 is Mr. Norman and the Saudi’s #2 Every event so far has been no cut and guaranteed $$$. If you are no longer capable of making a cut, then you need to look at plying your trade as a teacher, a speaker or a Golf Professional. #3 So far all events have been 54 holes only. It’s not like boxing where it went from hitting someone until they got KO’d or surrendered to 15 rounds, now down to 12 round for safety. No one needs to be protected from injury in golf. #4 The players that did make the move, I’m ok with that, I’m not OK with them wanting to play where and when they please. I’m gonna take you back to the USFL/NFL wars… you sign with that league, then that’s where you stay…period.
As far as the other points, I never heard of anyone, especially at Public Courses requiring you to change shoes not in the parking lot. A few of our courses don’t even have club houses. This past weekend, we ended up playing at a course that we hadn’t played in 2 years and it was never in any kind of shape. Well, new ownership, a commitment to their purchase, NIte & Day, Fairways with grass, Ruff with higher grass, greens were lovely, tee boxes were laser leveled this year in March, what a turnaround…so much so, I’m joining next season. your membership includes the riding cart if you want it! Which is great when it gets hot, Pro Shop improved, Food & Beverage is amazing now… Put me over the top. We played after the hurricane went through the area… the course handled all that water and then some. Plus I always found the layout interesting… 5 par 5’s and 5 par 3’s… Now all I gotta do is keep the ball in play there… all holes are tree lined!
Yes, the founder dislike the parking lot commotion of golfers sitting on the rear bumper changing shoes. At the same time there is no locker room available for the public. There are limited lockers ( like 3-4 dozens) for those who pay an annual fee ( discounted green fees and service at the restaurants).
I took my kids there for driving range when they were young because the close proximity to our house. I got two large buckets for them at junior rate. Kids got tired and had about 30-40 balls left, so I was hitting some pitch shots with they club. This guy came running out of the office accusing me of cheating, WTF? I showed him I didn’t even have my golf clubs with me, just F&*king around with my kids 6 iron. He still accused me of “cheating” for a lousy $8 difference between an adult and junior fee.
I made an complain to the management but never received an apology. Have not been back there for close to 2 decades now. The golf courses ( 5 or 6 locations with mostly 36 holes at each location) changed ownership twice during these years, and I still have not gone back there even once. Because for one, 80% of the golf courses they owned are not friendly to walkers; plus they’ll including the cart fee even if you walk. I heard the 3rd ownership is not doing well.
Don’t pretend to be something which you’re not. You’re not an exclusive private golf club so act like a high end public golf course if you must. Never forget who pay for your existence.
Anyways, LIV mirror some of these as it tried to be something it is not.
I truly believed that the 54 hole format is tailored for those aged or chronically plaque with injury. You know they can’t go 4 rounds of competition golf without hurting. The happy ending with price for all participants is probably a lore for the others to sign on.
My personal feeling is, the LIV will revert to something very similar to the PGA Tour format if not exactly the same format.
Listen up PGA Tour, have your attorney study this scenario because it’s likely to come up soon.
Norman will use anyone to get the LIV going and if, once, the LIV go on it’s footing, there be washed away with replacement. Pretty certain, their contract have loop holes for the LIV executive to release them without paying the whole promised payout.
I still won’t watch it, and I will not support the players who jumped. Too many past players are rolling in their graves. I’m more of a traditionalist. Golf was more fun to watch in the 50s, 60s and 70s. I didn’t get into playing it until the 80s. I mostly watch to see if I can pick up on something new. On another note. Here’s another story that will relate to what we will call creepy owners. The group I played with in the 90s, they have all passed away. 2 died on the course, one can’t play anymore because of a horrible disease. We were pretty good friends and even fiercer competitors. For a decade we basically rotated the club championship. I won 2, Kenny won 3, Al won 4. I left the club in 1999. I had just won my second championship, Al was 2nd, Ken was 4th that year. We played every Saturday as a group and we were first out. This particular Saturday Al and I went out as a 2some because Ken was sick and our other partner went on vacation. We teed off and rolled down the FW. As we were hitting our second shots the owners wife comes flying down in her pjs in a cart yelling what the hell do you think you’re doing. I was like playing golf, she screams you know there are no 2somes weekends! I was like we’re first ones out, we aren’t hitting up on anyone. Now, I had just won the club championship which gave me a free membership for the year! I was like you’re kidding right. She says you can both go back to the first tee and wait to see if a 2some shows up. I got out of the cart, grabbed my bag and walked in. I had a few choice Fbombs for her, but I didn’t go back to play a round for 8 years, the only reason I did was the County Matchplay was being held there. Don’t I see her and she says where have you been. I thought you moved away! She sold the course 4 years ago, but I still won’t play there. Bad memories.
Sigh! in your case, you may consider forgiving the ignorant. WTF? if the course is open why wouldn’t they allow anyone to get out instead of waiting to make a foursome? But they owned the joint so there you go, the only protest is to not give them your pennies.
There are those without the common sense and normal logic. I can say there are these from all walks of life including those who make decision for our life.
As a consumer, I can only protest by not supporting their way. As I won’t support the LIV as they stand. As I stated, never say never, so, in the slim case of future development, I may take a second look at what the LIV morphed into.
I doubt it will change much! With or without Norman, he is just the front man, could be replaced tomorrow.
Such as Stymies? Golf has evolved over the years, rules change, equipment changes. yes tradition is important and I think LIV is finding that, hence some of the proposed changes to their format. I also don’t think the majority of fans will get really into LIV and for that reason still maintain its a circus, sideshow and not the death of golf as we know it.
Well, what is wrong with stymie? If the strategy bothers some of the golfers, why don’t we get rid of the sand/pot bunkers, might as well get rid of the water hazards and the rolling fairway all together?
Make the fairways flat as an airport runway just like the mat in the driving range. Wouldn’t that be dandy.
Golf is golf, and some tried to “invent” other similar style of game without success. Want to change things, then, start another game, because it will not be golf. Don’t call it golf.
One of the elements which attract the fans is the overladen rules and seemingly struggle to pursue the perfection on the golf course. All of these situation mimic life events. Take them away, it’ll be a test tube environment or caged lab animals scenarios.
I guess this is the trending we had created for our kids. They come to expect “boxed solution” delivered by Amazon to the front door. Life is not such protected environment outside their parents sphere, the sooner the learn this the sooner they’ll get on their feet and do well for themselves.
If anyone thinks they need to change a tradition to suit their own, I would suggest for them to find another game. Do as one please, just don’t rock the boat of the others.
Rules in every sport, including GOLF are always being modified. Take for instance the drop. if you remember, you had to drop over the shoulder, in old days you holed your putt, took like 2 club lengths away from the hole and teed off from there…on the green. Many rule changes were made to speed up play and many happened after the the USGA and R&A figured out that it was best to codify their respective rule books. The stymie was around in matchplay events (PGA was matchplay for years) until the 1950s. I like the new OB rule, saves you a walk back to the tee box if you are far enuff down the FW. I don’t think Camel Tour has its own rules yet, that could still be coming… who knows. I still won’t watch it or support it.
Yes, the rule of sports are constantly changing. For the better or the worse is debatable.
I really think they should consider having two sets of rules for either a USGA sanctioned tournament and for the local and recreational golfers at say, a charity event.
The rules are basically to keep the field on level ground. Whether they will play a modified rule for whatever the reason, ( fairness? speed of play, for the golf course to maintain their tee sheet schedule?)
The rules of golf had evolved from just a handful of the items to a booklet to a spread sheet. Of course it could revert back to the simple form.
However, getting it to a point of making a lower score more accessible to “grow the game” is not what I personally like to see. If the changes are for the fairness? I’ll be 100% behind the change. If the changes are motivated for other reasons? I doubt that I would like to follow for I still believe this is one place where I would follow the rules completely.
Do I insist on sticking to every rule when playing a casual round? Not to my playing partners and sometimes I’ll forego a few just so I won’t be the one causing the traffic jam on the fairway.
If my playing partner lift the their golf ball from a fairway divot, and there is no stake of the outcome, I really would not care much but don’t ask me to sign that card at the end, they can fudge it all the way without my help.
Do I go back to the tee box when the tee ball was no where to be found? Probably not, depending on the situation, applying two strokes penalty instead of the lost of distance and a stroke. If playing a skins , forfeit of the hole is normally what we normally do if not willing/able to go back to tee it up again. Shit happens, sometimes we’ll all see the tee shot bounced on the fairway and no one could find it when we get up to the spot.
Same as searching for lost golf balls. We don’t exercise the 5min rule ( now i think it is 3 min. ) Simply because we’re not playing at the highest level with that kind of stake involved.
Usually a quick look and a few seconds of kicking around the rough and off we go. Forget the $5 ProV1.
I don’t know about you, but prior to every Club event we have local rules posted and there are a few that really help speed up play, Like ball in a footprint in the bunker allowing you to smooth area and place the ball, placing the ball on a preferred lie in your fairway. Use (changing) of different balls throughout the round, but not during a hole. The worst score you can post is +2 over your hdcp, meaning if you are on a Par 4 getting a stroke, Pick up after 7 swipes. Everything else is pretty much settled rules.
These and the other “local rules” are certainly very generous.
I don’t believe I had encountered anything close to those in a club event.
The most generous local rules we had was the “winter rules”. You see, we have very wet weather from Late Fall through early Spring the next year. Often times we’ll lose a perfect tee shot in the fairway; have to look carefully for pitch marks and dig for your tee ball ( an inch or two under the turf is not unusual ), free drop if more than one witness where the tee shot landed. Also a lost ball in the piles of colorful leaves on the side of the fairways. Casual water meant when we step on the turf and the water covered the sole of the golf shoes… things like that.
However, we also had guys who insisted on playing the golf ball where you find it. No winter rules, just like they played it in the Great Britain. also had another group who will improvise their own set of rules to speed up the play ( like pick up if within the leather ).
I don’t really care what they do if there is nothing riding on it. You’d bet it’ll be harder than pulling a tooth to get that 2 bits out of my pocket.
So now Norman and the Camel Tour have struck a back-door deal with the MENA Tour in Thailand so he tweets that CAMEL Tour players will immediately start accumulating OWGR points because of this “affiliation “. First, not so fast, OWGR has to review everything. It still won’t work. Because they are limited field events and everyone is out of the Top 50, they would most like only accumulate minimal points. So unless they wave a magic wand, the limited fields with low ranked pkayers, it won’t help. I hope OWGR sees through this, but the rankings don’t care what ure name is. They Strictly use strength of field, strength of venue, and whether the non top 50 events have cuts.