Strength and Speed Training

Practice
#36

Agreed. In fact, I apologize, because I think I said what you said earlier, just in a different way.

But yeah, strength is low-hanging fruit, for sure. Plus, you should be generating power when you squat, deadlift, etc.

For example, I think I could’ve added 20-40 pounds (random guess) to my deadlift had I learned how to press off the floor (like you’re trying to jump) when initiating the pull. If I would’ve learned to generate that power instead of just pull off the floor, I could’ve lifted more.

In other words, I agree - there is a lot of carryover from gaining strength to generating power.

Also, strength training - if you do enough work (and you need to) and moderate your rest times - will improve your work capacity too. So, if you get winded walking the golf course, even with a push cart, you should notice some improvement in your general fitness/cardio doing a weight training program.

And then once you’re done with your linear progression - I agree with you again - you’ve probably tapped most of your low hanging fruit (otherwise you’d still be doing your 3x per week linear progression) and should move onto something sport (golf) specific. I think Mark Rippetoe mentions this (sport specific training) in his book (Starting Strength)…

For me, I’m no longer doing powerlifting training because my goal was never to be a powerlifter. I got into weight training to improve my general fitness. And now with golf, there’s no way I have time to do both.

But I don’t need to squat 600 lbs or deadlift 700 lbs to play golf or live a high quality of life, either.

I still do some resistance training (bands, parallel bars (that just came in today), calisthenics, rings, sandbags, etc.) and will likely incorporate some dumbbells/weights in the future. But I also mix it up with other training to improve my general fitness and golf game.

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#37

I don’t think there is a specific answer… comes down to how your body reacts to training, how hard you train and what you do for recovery…

Personally, having just finished my first gym routine in over 6 months, I’m guessing it will be a full year before I’m where I want to be, strength wise.

I don’t have insane lifting goals, I just want to improve my fitness… but I’m also calorie conscious as I’m fat and want to lose weight… if I were just looking to add mass, I could probably shave 3 months off… if I were 25, I could probably do it in 6.

Best thing you can do is focus on the habit of going to the gym and doing what you can do. Starting strength is an excellent starting point if you’ve never done a weight lifting program.

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#38

Muscle memory is a thing - so you might get stronger, faster than someone who has never lifted weights before.

On a general program like Starting Strength, assuming you eat well (or you’re fat), manage your stress, and recover well, I’d say 3-6 months - enough time to run out a linear progression.

But there are a lot of variables involved and I’m in no way an expert, doctor, coach, etc. So, YMMV. But that’s been my experience and that of others I’ve been around in the gym.

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#39

I think 3-6 months is fair if you are fully committed to the starting strength routine… but it also means that you’ll be sore more often and will likely hurt your weekly golf game (at least in the first few months)…

When I last trained heavy (16 years ago) I’d take the week off from lifting when I had a golf event.

Real world considerations can slow you down considerably… I don’t think I’ll be anywhere close to where I want to be physically this season, so I’m setting my goals for next year and focusing on building good routines without tanking my golf this year.

I’m also taking things slow as I’m not 100% confident my back has healed. It feels like it has, but I’m still dealing with some lingering issues… my left hip is still super tight and it was limiting my reps today… I’m 39 so I’m trying to be gentle with my body.

At the end of the day, getting into the gym and moving weights is great for your long term health… that’s the first thing I’m focused on. Adding strength (and club head speed) are secondary concerns right now.

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#40

Helpful thoughts all around. My trainer keeps talking about building a foundation, so I assume that’s where we are right now :slight_smile: I’ve been feeling really good since I started the program. Trimmer, more energy, and already starting to see some swing speed improvement.

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#41

I think 3-6 months is fair if you are fully committed to the starting strength routine… but it also means that you’ll be sore more often and will likely hurt your weekly golf game (at least in the first few months)…

Everyone is different, of course. But Starting Strength is only 3x per week, and those workouts should only take 1.5-2 hours to complete. This is what I’m basing that 3-6 month timeline on.

But, again, there are a lot of variables. A lot of us are older, which impacts your ability to build muscle, recover, avoid injury, etc.

Also, you shouldn’t be sore regularly other than your first week or two. If you’re sore, especially in pain, you need to look at your recovery. I think some people really underestimate how important recovery is.

Plus, walking the golf course, swinging the clubs, etc. should HELP in your recovery, as that will keep the blood flowing to different areas (which helps you to recover).

When I last trained heavy (16 years ago) I’d take the week off from lifting when I had a golf event.

Not trying or meaning to armchair QB this, but I’d be more inclined to “peak” a week or two before (if I have my terminology correct) and take a deload week the week of a major golf tournament. That way you still keep some baseline strength and don’t set yourself up for an EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL first week back to weight training.

But, in general, I agree. There are a lot of considerations. It’s definitely not as straightforward as “3-6 months and you’ll be strong AF.”

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#42

Well, that’s a shame :rofl:

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#43

All of these answers are good ones–and your results may vary. As a baseline–Rippetoe would say most run out their novice gains in linear progression in 6-9 weeks. That is–do the basic lifts. Start with lower weights than you think you should. Work out three times a week, after warm-up do three working sets of 5 reps in each lift BUT dead lift–that’s one working set of 5, not three. Add 5 pounds EACH session to upper body lifts (military/bench), 10 pounds each session to lower body lifts (squat deadlift). When you can no longer add 5 and 10, add 2.5 and 5. When you can’t add weight to the bar each day, you are done with novice progression. And you will be happy you are, unless you are a power lifter. Add in pull-ups and power cleans to every other workout. Three sets of three with power cleans. I was recruited to play D1 sports in college–so I wasn’t a novice to weight training. I did this program in my mid fifties. My squat went from 185-315, deadlift from 225-435, bench from 205-245. And the strength stays with you with a little maintenance–and is easy to get back. Now–eight years later, I recently posted video of doing deadlifts for 5 rep sets at 395 pounds. And to Craigers, start slow, full range of motion even if tiny weights, keep adding weight to the bar. You will get there!

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#44

Craigers–sounds like the right approach! But keep at it, keep adding weight to the bar gradually, while insisting on great form and full range of motion. I work with a guy named Marty Gallagher (worth looking up)–he calls this “yoga with weights”. Start with goblet squats–really work on depth and explode out of the bottom, after a pause. A very safe lift, and one that will work you hard. 39–well, that’s certainly older. I’m 64–I think you have plenty of time, athletic ability, and hormonal recovery ability to get after this. Don’t talk yourself out of challenging yourself, you have plenty left in the tank!

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#45

To add to this, @Craigers, you might also do box squats (if needed).

My “injury” was - I think - the result of me sitting so much. I couldn’t squat past parallel without severe pain in my adductor/groin area. It got so bad that I’d have pain shooting down my right thigh whenever I walked/squatted.

When I started working with my coach, we did box squats until I was strong enough to squat past parallel without pain.

There’s a lot of truth to the phrase, “motion is lotion.”

But since you use your lower back in squats, box squats may help until you feel strong and/or confident enough to do regular squats. You’ll also want to make sure you don’t tuck your tailbone/ass (some people call this “butt winks”) at the bottom, as that will likely aggravate your back.

You can do this with most forms of resistance, and types of squats - including the goblet squat (with a KB, dumbbell, etc.) that @DVOIF suggested.

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#46

Thanks… I’m still not sure how I tore cartilage in my back, but I know swinging aggressively didn’t help matters… interestingly, my back never really hurt all the pain radiated to my hip…

I basically stopped playing golf in the beginning of August, and have started swinging full again with no real pain… I just have some lingering issues from the injury.

Mostly that my hip is extremely tight… I’ve been doing extensive stretching and core work to try to set myself up for success on recovery.

My gym (at my club) doesn’t have a squat rack, so I’ll be doing kettlebell squats mostly… I actually bought car stands at harbor freight so I could deadlift.

So I’m hoping my back injury isn’t permanent, it’s just something I need to be aware of and make sure I’m not over exerting myself.

Today I was deadlifting and doing hip flexor stuff… I stuck with low, low weights and just tried to focus on my body moving correctly again.

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#47

Something else I feel like I should add, and something I had ignored most of my life… flexibility.

I’ve incorporated a number of stretches into my workout routine. My shoulders are a hot mess right now, and I’m not sure if they’ve always been that way or if it’s a result of something else… I failed every basic shoulder mobility test I’ve taken… and I physically can’t get to the inside of the golf ball right now because of it.

I’m also working on hip mobility and my thorasic spine… gently right now, as I don’t want to tweak anything!

I’m hoping to add more range of motion while also gaining some strength and sped… we shall see how it goes!

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#48

I have decided to start writing down my workouts; Everyday so I am accountable and do them.
Will report back on success or failure of future compliance.

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#49

Good add. I’ve generally focused, such as it is, on flexibility and range of motion. In my case, if I don’t have RoM, I got nothing. At 70, RoM is harder to maintain, so more of my “exercise” time is devoted to it.

Both of my shoulders have rotator cuff issues. I’ll do some strength training for the supporting muscles, but RoM is key for my golf - and day to day functioning. YMMV…

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#50

My shoulders are “junky” from years of combat sports and osteo arthritis. Best solution–hanging from a bar. Try to get 30 seconds to a minute-works wonders, better than all the complex stuff I have ever tried, better than needling, rolfing, rolling, stretching with bands…

This is the book–if you are curious. However, all it says is hang, a lot, and after a while do some simple shoulder exercises. Read the reviews on Amazon. This works. “Shoulder Pain? The Solution & Prevention, Revised & Expanded Paperback – January 1, 2013”

by John M. Kirsch M.D. (Author)

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#51

When you say hang, do you just mean hold onto a bar and hang vertically? Like basically pull up position without the pull up? Mike with Fit for Golf suggested similar, and I’ve been doing it… just like verification I’m doing it right.

I don’t know what’s up with my shoulders… my range of motion just sucks with them… I don’t have any pain and have never had any problems… but if I do the back against the wall, elbows out horizontally, and hands vertical and try to get to 90 degrees, I max out at like 45 degrees. My wife can physically force my hand to the wall, but it doesn’t feel great.

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#52

That’s right–just hang. The book may be worth it to explain it all. And shoulders are weird. I have had multiple knee injuries–two serious, and no issues with them at all.

Never had a shoulder injury diagnosed–my ROM is limited, and they are pretty sore in the morning.

Unless I hang. That seems to be a cure all.

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#53

Have you had a PT check you out for excessive tightness in the pectorals? I had that, the therapist pressed hard on a particular spot where the (ligament? tendon?) attaches to the shoulder, to release the excessive tension. I had the same range of motion issue, couldn’t even bring my shoulders back to walk with normal posture. The procedure hurts, but works. Perhaps PT will show you how to find the spot also.

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#54

I haven’t tried pt for that yet… I’ll add it to my list! Going to see if I can improve flexibility at home.

I have no issues rolling my shoulders back… I think my issue probably ties into my back issue…

We shall see.

#55

I agree with the hanging from a bar. I’ll be 55 this year and started having shoulder troubles maybe 8 years ago. I woke up one morning with frozen shoulder (left) and it’s been a battle since. Besides hanging from a bar, I do some other simple stretches they gave me in PT and others I found online. I’m working on it this week. I got my Covid shot Monday afternoon in my left shoulder and it’s been killing me since Tues morning. Feels a bit better today, but I wonder if I should have had it in my “better” shoulder lol.

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