Shot shaping with driver

Strategy
#1

I have learned a lot from @ScottFawcettDECADE and DECADE – bogey (and double bogey) avoidance is really helping my game and I’m thankful for all the analytics and strategy that are part of the modern game.

Scott seems pretty adamant about sticking with a single shot shape and that all makes sense to me. On a recent podcast (sorry, i can’t remember which one), he mentioned that for some of clients he reluctantly let’s them shape some iron shots but thinks it’s always a terrible idea with the driver (I hope I’m paraphrasing it right). I’m not sure I understand completely why this is the case.

I totally agree that shaping your irons is a bad idea – if you know your dispersion and have confidence playing one direction, I don’t see the point generally (I know there are some minor exceptions). For me, when I try to hit a fade with the iron, not only does my dispersion get worse laterally, my dispersion on distance gets worse as well. It seems prudent to just stick with the higher percentage shot and map your dispersion pattern to the target you are trying to hit.

The driver, though, seems slightly different. There are a couple of holes I play that are dogleg right that makes it impossible to hit driver off the tee with my normal draw and I’m envious of those who play a fade around the trees to the right. It seems to me, with more practice, a fade/slice would get me 40-50yds farther and even if I’m less consistent, it’s a better option from a SG perspective To me, hitting a driver with a fade when there is no other option is just a variation of hitting a different shape with an iron to avoid a tree.

I don’t doubt Scott but I don’t quite understand why. Is it just too hard to do without risk of a double cross? Am I wasting my time on the range working on it?

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#2

I’m a single shot shape guy. We have one hole on our course where a cut would be nice but I don’t have that shot, and when I would try it, I’d either hit it way right and short, or double cross. Fortunately for me, I can hit it over the trees and let it fall to the left back into the fairway, despite it being a dog-leg right.

Unless you have a ton of time to practice I’d just stick to one shot shape through the bag.

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#3

I don’t try to shape my driver at all. With all the modern equipment, both clubs and balls, the ball just wants to go straight. It would take an incredible amount of time, practice, and talent to be able to competently shape the driver both ways. I think even most PGA tour pros don’t feel too comfortable shaping driver both ways.

I say on the few holes that don’t match your driver shape, lay back with a different club and hit a longer approach into the green. Trying to work it both ways seems too risky. Better to spend your time trying to consistently hit the driver solid and straight or minimal shape.

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#4

I think this last question is the important one… and I’m going to say no.

  1. Learning what a draw / fade feels like can help you improve your normal swing and make adjustments on the course… generically knowing how to shape a shot can be helpful for recovery, I think it’s a good skill to have.

  2. I’m not a professional golfer. My wife would rather me finish a round in 3.5 hours and doesn’t worry if I shot a 76 instead of a 75. I’m playing for me. I like shaping shots (sometimes)… I moved away from it to improve my scoring, but I miss the strategy of occasionally trying to hit a different shot… it doesn’t lower my average score, but it does improve my enjoyment of the round. (Sometimes)

I think being able to hit different shots is fun and a good trick to have in the bag… I don’t think it’s a practical skill for driving the ball, but that doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

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#5

99% of the time I’m hitting a push draw with the driver. It’s my don’t even have to think about it natural shot shape. I CAN hit a little baby cut if I have to, but I prefer not to.
I think the idea is spend time perfecting one shot shape you can rely and depend on. If you can keep another shape in your back pocket, great, but it’s better to “perfect” one.

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#6

I have a consistent shape of hook. It is a huge relief not to loose any shots to the right. With driver some holes I play for a hook, others I aim for straight shots or even fades by having the feeling of holding the face open through impact. It makes it easy, tee it up on the left and aim waaaay right. Today hooked my driver left into the trees. I had to aim straight across back out to the fairway and hit a radical hook with my 7i that finished in the middle of the fairway. If I open the face at address I can hit a slice but it is not consistent enough to try and hit around doglegs.

#7

I think Scott Fawcett would say that time would be better spent developing speed and working on dispersion with a single shape as you mentioned.

I hit a lot of shot shapes… just not intentionally : )

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#8

Basically hitting the golf ball is so dang hard why try to do it multiple different ways. There is not a single person on this forum that should practice shaping shots. The payoff isn’t there.

#9

I’ve never tried to shape the ball at all, really. But since learning the @Adamyounggolf nail drill, I have been messing with shaping the ball with all clubs whilst on the range. During play though, I just try and think of the draw shape.

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#10

I’m a big believer in understanding how to hit different shots… not just to be able to hit them but to know why you hit them and thus how not to hit them…

I don’t think knowing the shots means you have to take them to the course, but it is always fun to play a fade all day and bust out a draw on a long par five to shorten the hole…

This has made me want to start drawing the ball on occasion again…

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#11

When I can hit the ball both ways I’ve probably got a 2-way miss going lol. I pretty much draw every club but the driver. On good days I can hit a push-cut, but it’s a poor player’s fade. I sort of like that the driver fades. I feel like I can eliminate the left miss hitting driver or the right miss hitting 3 wood…it’s not 100%, but I did drive it well this year. Next year I need to just only hit a draw with my irons though. I made too many mistakes not sticking with it.

#12

I personally find it quite enjoyable to try to hit different shapes on the range and sometimes on the course. (With irons though, not a driver). It’s prob not something someone at my skill level should do a lot of but I’m out there to have a good time and get better at golf. I feel it helps me achieve both of those things.

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#13

I have a question. Forgive me if this is one of the minor exceptions mentioned, but what about approaches to oval greens? Let’s say the axis of the green is left to right, angled front-left to right-rear. A ‘stock’ draw would present a green only 25y deep but very wide (not really within my dispersion). If I aim for the front (left) of the green and play a slight cut the ball is spending more time over the green. If I hit it straight, I’m on the front; if it fades, I’m in the middle of the green. If I flare it, I’m on the back right. Or the other direction; say the oval is right to left, same question for a draw. I usually don’t worry much about double-cross; I can fade my irons pretty much on command, question is how much - could be 5y or 25y! But at least I feel I’m reconfiguring my dispersion to match the terrain. Under most other conditions my preferred shot is my default.
Driver I totally agree. My driver has a slight fade (I never attempt a draw) or if I need it, sometimes bordering on a slice if I really step on it. Left doglegs I always hit 3W which I’m comfortable working both ways.
I aspire to @Craigers and @Adamyounggolf to develop my abilities. But…
So, I guess my question is: what’s wrong with my strategic thinking? How should I be playing those elongated greens?
I’m hoping to go DECADE in the near future.

#14

I think the issue here is that, it doesn’t matter if your ball spends longer over the green. What matters is where it lands and finishes.

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All shapes tend to have that oval “short-right, long-left” pattern. Personally, I pick the shot shape with the tightest dispersion and use that, for play.

The only caveat to this would be if a player hits a lot of fat shots (which would tend to produce a short-left shot with a fader, or a short-right shot with a drawer). There could be a call that you could fit more shots on the green with a certain shape.

However, in that scenario
1.its likely that the fat should would not reach the green anyway - although it might give you a better angle for your pitch shot in
2. If you’re fatting a lot of shots, I wouldn’t really be building a shaping strategy based on that. I’d address the strike issues.

I promote experimentation in practice - at least with changing face angle to effect a change in outcome. However, when it comes to on-course play, I agree with Scott that most people should just be picking their best shot shape and sticking to that.

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#15

Thank you!! I guess I should’ve prefaced, since COVID I’m treating all my rounds as ‘practice’ and thus more open to experimentation. For “serious” rounds, I shall change my strategy! Thanks again.

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#16

THEZIPR23 said no one on this forum should be shaping shots. I disagree; he doesn’t know each of our shotmaking ability and if someone wants to learn how, it can only help their game. Have at it brothers and sisters—I shape my 5W both ways to good effect and it’s fun!

#17

I believe that practicing draws and fades is a positive thing, helping a player learn to control his swing better. But for the vast majority of us when we are actually playing, sticking to a single consistent shot shape is almost certainly the best way to shoot consistently lower scores.
And I typed that without reading the intervening posts, I see I’m repeating @Adamyounggolf almost word for word. Sorry for the apparent plagiarism.

#18

Yes I respectfully disagree with that statement. The idea is to have a go to stock shot shape that you don’t have to think about and hit 99% of the time, but to say no one should be shaping shots…ehh nope. The need for it is there. The ability comes with practice. A lot of practice. There are high level ams on this forum. @jon is one of them. I’m not winning local US Open qualifiers, but I can certainly hold my own. I shape the ball when I need to. It’s not something I do just to prove I can, but it’s in the bag.

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#19

I went down the “wanting to shape my shots either way on command” rabbit hole a few years back. Growing up I had an extreme in-to-out path (think like 12-15 degrees), a hooded club face, and flippy hands through impact. When I was playing a lot, I had a very reliable HUGE snap hook that I had to start about 30-50 yards right of the fairway to get it to end up in the fairway. That was fine for the wide open courses of Wyoming, not so much for the tree lined courses back east where I went to college. I could reliably shoot 74-78 with that swing and ball flight, but I was never going to shoot 65, or even 69, really. Once I realized I could never go lower, I was ahem like Tiger, and realized I needed to completely reconstruct my swing. The next twenty years I spent trying to figure out how to neutralize my path to hit a straighter ball. Imagine my excitement when I actually started to be able to fade the ball somewhat! It was so foreign to my eye, but I eventually started to like it, and I believed the path to the next level of golf was to be able to work it both ways on command…

And it may be. But I don’t have the time to perfect it. For me, now, I am seeing almost every shot as straight, maybe a slight cut with driver and 3w, and slight draws with irons. But not much movement. There are very few holes where a straight shot won’t work to some degree. Misses are little pulls and pushes, not huge blocks and duck hooks. I find it just as exhilarating (if not more so) to hit a flat, straight, laser bomb or arrow as it is to shape one on to the fairway or the hole. In fact, the only person I can think of right now who shapes his ball all different directions is Tiger (and Bubba), who came of age in an era of a spinnier ball. And it is pure joy to watch him work the ball around the golf course. Most other tour pros shot shapes tracers are just laser arrows for the most part. I still like it and find it extremely enjoyable.

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#20

One of my goals on the simulator this winter is to get my path relatively consistent and in the single digits (which it probably already is)… I just want a relatively neutral swing path and from there want the confidence that I CAN work it either direction… I can usually pull out a draw when I need to on the course, but tend to rely on a fade… but I think if I get to a better understanding of swing path (and how to feel the differences) it might help me be more consistent.

There are also a couple of holes where being able to hit a draw would be nice (as long as it doesn’t bring a 2 way miss back on the table)

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