The sound… good god the sound
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Right.
It’s a question of standard deviations. The pros misses are going to be much better and they’re going to hit their best much more often than an amateur.
A scratch golfer can average around 74-75 strokes per round and be a scratch golfer. Pros (on the PGA and LPGA) are averaging 69-70s in competition with much more difficult course setups than the average amateur plays.
They’re really good! But, as mentioned above, they don’t stuff every wedge shot inside 10 feet. But they stuff a lot inside 10 feet! And the ones they don’t, they either make easy pars or keep it no worse than bogey.
But as for a scratch male vs LPGA, those women are so skilled compared to a scratch it’s not even funny. Like, that one player who hit 63 STRAIGHT GIRs in the LPGA Tour Championship?!? Are you kidding me???
The skill is just crazy.
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Just like going to a concert live, quite different than listening to the sound track.
One of the place they’ll practice ( everyone ) is the sand bunker, since golf courses have different type of sand, texture, packing, and the climate all will influence of how the golf ball will get out of the trap.
Watching them practice a few dozen shots from the sand bunker is amazing, not only they could get the golf balls close to the intended landing spot, they could control the trajectory and the spin. With ONE wedge.
They are good and getting better; they have to, owing to the intensified competition. Not only the traditional golfers produced from collegiate competition and the country clubs and the well intend; there are those who chose to be a professional golfer for no other reason but the lucrative way of making to retirement in 10 years or less. Those who could have been a baseball player, a football player, or maybe a basketball player… all seek their fortune on the PGA Tour, if they can make the cut.
Ken Venturi could have played for the Yankee for baseball, Jack Nicklaus was good with baseball and football in high school…
Anyone says golf is not a sport, need to change their statement. It could be true a century ago, but as the fortune grew in the industry, attracting all the talented athletes , it had evolved other than a retired rich men’s pastime.
With the high earning came the rise in the social status, the professional golfers is an elite group of athlete today.
Exactly. They are much, much better than we are, and they should be, as much time as they get to spend just getting better at Golf. But their capabilities as a group are quantifiable, and they lag behind the image we get of them from Saturday/Sunday.
Good point, @papageorgio, on the relative skill of the amateurs in that Lake Nona thingy, vs elite HS and above. I don’t have much experience with top HS golf. Never played it until my 20s, and though I sometimes practice near a top Texas HS boys and girls team—Memorial High is frequently found at Memorial Park’s driving range—I don’t have a grasp of their median scores/handicaps. But I’d suspect elite HS boys to be better than that crowd at Lake Nona. Certainly good D1 players would be.
@Ndj209’s points on golf v soccer/basketball are noted. I agree with most, though I haven’t seen fundamental brilliance during the few WNBA games I’ve seen. Like you, I’d think the explosive power men have over women in those games would lead to greater disparity than in golf. It’s interesting to think of the point where Korda just couldn’t compete. Stroke qualifier (vs making it to the match play) of the US Amateur? Lower level? Higher?
I am defining elite amateur as someone who is competitive at the state amateur tournament… so probably someone playing to +3ish at least and certainly getting division 1 looks
So in all of houston, probably just a handful of guys
I would also guess that the Memorial HS #1 is a really good golfer!
Edit: for context the tx am was won by this guy at 10 under. Only a handful of players were under par after 4 days
Looked him up and he is playing to a plus 5.5
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You know, talk about small world, but I think I’ve actually seen that guy hitting, at either Memorial or Marti. Probably Memorial. Noticed him, because I thought he was a golf-mad, sports-talk radio guy, who also was a gangly ginger, and seemed like a good dude.
His shots sounded different. And it’s funny how the sound often isn’t wrong. You’ll hear it, then look, and here’s this swing with nice, to parallel back, no swaying, and coiling all the way through.
(Which I can never seem to do. Even on ‘good’ drives, the hands never get higher than say, shoulder-height, and I always look like I’m in Guard 1 or 2—whichever one is the ‘baseball’ position from kendo. I’ve tried to get them all the way around, high over my left shoulder, shaft across my back…nope. Maybe Fit For Golf and this new weight room’ll do it?)
Anyway, think I’ve seen him hit; not surprised.
Are you still working at scratch? I would be interested in updates. I am at a 10 right now after last year. Last year, I was exposed to practical golf, website and podcast, as well as Scott Fawcett’s stuff and i saw a significant drop in GHIN/play. I dint get out as much as I was hoping, but now hav more time with teenagers grown older.
I have taken the plunge on speed training, return to weigh training. I have gained approx 7-9 MPH on CHS per PRGR from this site. Hoping to increase driving distance 15-20 Mars this year which appears to be a direct correlation to lowering GHIN.
pls update your progress
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So I thought this was interesting. Chasing Scratch It is really interesting that 2 men 10 hdcp began the journey. They thought they could hit scratch in a year. Well apparently that did not happen. 5 years on, neither has shot even par or better even once. They are both about a 3 hdcp which is amazing, so they are putting in the work. As I have said in the past. It’s a great goal and you may not ever get there. It’s not EZ. Anything can trip you up. Talent and work gets you to 10 or so. After that you have to develop a superb short game, just off the charts from where u are as a 10. I know there are a lot of folks that are already there and I would say good on you! You were most likely a very good player in your youth. But after you hit 30 something, it’s way harder to maintain and even harder to get there. Just know, if you can shave .75 a year you are doing amazing!
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Not everyone can get there
I consider myself a solid athlete and was able to get to 5.5… alas my ball striking was still not even in the scratch zip code… i have never been able to REALLY go for it however as I really picked up the game after college… i spent six months unemployed playing 2x per week where I basically went from ~10 to 5.5
Generally, most people never reach their golf potential as FOCUSED practice is what makes the difference. You need quality and quantity and a TON of patience
Anybody who can play to a single digit is playing solid. The gains from 9 down to 0 take a lot of hard work that most people aren’t willing to put in
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My point exactly! Playing golf is EZ…I know I’ve been involved in a multitude of outings with people who wear sandals, bring exploding golf balls, drink a 6 pack and use clubs out of a Salvation Army barrel. Now, playing Good Golf… that’s a whole different story and can be quantified in a bunch of different ways. I played alot of golf, way more than the average bear for certain…and the best hdcp I got to was -2.3. That’s very good golf, but not scratch and definitely not good enough to play on a circuit. Good Golf is hard, very hard…it takes a multitude of skills starting with your brain and your “heart”. I think playing to the best level you possibly can is great, striving to hit a hdcp goal is very admirable, but I also believe, there has to be a touch of reality to your goal. If there isn’t, this game will make you cry! I don’t want to see anyone give it up because it can be so frustrating. I mean, everyone knows this, Struck the ball great today, putted like I never saw a putter before. Putted like Ben Crenshaw today…could not keep my ball on the planet today, let alone the rough. Shot a 32 front! should have stopped there…41 back! I do that all the time… Once in a while, I can get it all together for 18 holes but that’s a unicorn. BUT, I’m still there at 8:10 am on a Saturday (weather depending) with an outlook of I’m going to shoot 68 today! I actually always do too… however, I happen to reach my goal around hole 16 or 17! 
I get up and down less than 40% of the time. I didn’t start golf until age 18 and made scratch at 43.
Ball striking is almost the only way to get there. Chipping and putting can save a score but if you have to rely on it you won’t make scratch.
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If you can’t putt, you won’t ever make scratch. If you only can get up and down 40% of the time…your GIR has to be UNREAL… if you average 2-3 birdies a round and you hit 11 GIR(which is about TOUR LEVEL)… I can do math! That’s cutting it close… you are maybe scoring in the mid 70s… Like I said scratch to me, when I learned how to play this game was with people who would score somewhere between 69-73. Anything over par for these guys was NO BUENO. I went like 32 rounds in row, I actually found one of my notebooks and never scored higher than a 77 and I broke par 6 times during that streak…and my hdcp then was 2.3. A Scratch Golfer will shoot par on 90% of the courses they play on…Probably not a Tour Level course. They figure a “Scratch” amateur might shoot 90 on Augusta, I played Merion after the US Open 9 years ago and stopped counting… I think I probably came in at 120ish…LOL!
I can’t putt either
Scratch golfers don’t shoot anywhere near par on 90% of their rounds.
Scratch Golf defined by USGA According to the governing body… a scratch golfer will play to a 0 and basically should be expected to score PAR ish 1 or 2 over or under on most courses. So very close to my definition. Look I don’t want to get into arguing over apples and oranges…it’s all fruit! I usually don’t play for $$$ on the course anymore and this year I had to give up Association Tourneys because of personal issues. But my hdcp is/was 8.6 currently, I was fooling around with my partner and he’s a 14. I gave him 10 shots ( if I were to only give him the 5 according to the system I would crush him and that’s no fun!)… none on the par 3’s, none on the par5’s and none on the 2 short par 4’s. He shot 84 his hdcp. I shot my hdcp 78, because of the way it fell… he won the front +3, I won the back +1… he only won the nassau… The best player in our association plays to a +1.5 on our course… he normally scores 68-72. If he gave me my weight… he would lose to me in match play everytime out… no way he could survive giving me 10 shots… maybe he would lose 25/75 percent of the time in Medal Play… No how/No way he can give up that much weight!.. so how fair/accurate is the HDCP system? Anyways…all said over 20 rounds on your home course … a minimum of 1/2 of them have to have been at Par or Better…to be 0.00… But it’s the best thing we have so there it is!
Greens. In. Regulation.
Which takes ballstriking.
Scrambling percentage 2022, PGA Tour, is 60%.
And these are the best players in the world. Now, 60% is half again better than 40%, but you run into a point of diminishing returns, once you get your short game to an acceptable level.
“Acceptable” here being, ‘get on the green with your next shot’. Vs. taking 3-4 more shots to do the same thing. I’m not even saying 'get within one-putt distance away—though that’d be great—but just get on the green. Then, take your 1-2 putts, and move on. Damage control.
But ballstriking, shrinking dispersion so that we can be more assured of getting a GIR, (or even early—driving par 4s, par 5s in 2), that’s how we can lower scores. Quoting Monte Scheinblum badly here, but, “The difference between a 4 and a 15 is how well they strike the ball. Then who wins between the 4s, is who has the better short game that day.”
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Yep, scoring in golf is ALL ABOUT making par. GIR correlates so closely to score that Mark Broadie claims he can tell you what your score (probably within a couple of strokes) is with how many greens you hit.
Here is another one of my scary stats.
There are so many ways to get the ball in the hole. Everyone just needs to get out of their own way. It is probably the hardest thing I had to do to make my goal.
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Lol @ the double chip rate!
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So you only average less than 2 chips per round? (unless u are in a lot of GS Bunkers) My God man, you are hitting 16 GIR! You should be about +4 HDCP then…if you only average 1.85 Putts per Round… Now that’s an incredible stat!
I think the athleticism / coordination / reps it takes to strike the ball at scratch level is why it isn’t possible for most to get to scratch… it is athletically demanding… not everyone can be a 4.0 tennis player or dunk a basketball either
Kudos on being scratch with double chips and a bad putter!! Haha
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