Seeing if I can get to scratch in 365 days (6.7 to 0.0): First 61 Days

Practice
#81

I’d think it’d really depend on the course, and its approach style too. At 7K, most of them are going to be hitting long irons in greens on par-4s. Maybe some medium irons. Going to be a different go than a guy hitting 8I-wedges into those.

LPGA players are fantastic. So are, e.g., WNBA and Womens’ Soccer players. Both of the latter regularly get taken to school whenever they play talented boys (think U-17) teams. I’d expect very good male amateur golfers to do similar with LPGA players. It may be that the amateur crowd at this tournament, isn’t as talented as say, the talent at a top high school/junior college golf team.

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#82

My guess is they are still + handicaps playing from 7k yards and competitive with club champ type amateurs. Elite high school college golfers playing well above that level.

As for scratch golfers not playing better, I don’t find that very surprising. Our club championship from 6700 is typically won by something between 2 under to 2 over with multiple scratch and plus handi’s playing two rounds.

It’s the pressure, playing the ball down, re-teeing OB and having to hole every putt

Edit: prob beating club champ type golfer… probably getting beat by anyone who seriously competes in state ams or us open qualifying

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#83

Not surprising at all. You can be a scratch golfer and never break par. I probably average 2-3 at most under par in each 20 round cycle. On top of that tournament golf is way different. And while they may not set it up like a PGA Tour event, I would bet a lot that it was setup harder than a normal everyday course.

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#84

I don’t know who said it on one of the posts on something I was trying to point out. If John Rahm…that was the player they used as the example was only able to play 2 or 3 shots BETTER than SCRATCH… he’d want to commit suicide! It’s a strange way they compute the handicap stuff. I like the way my old teacher explained it to me…you can either play fairly consistently under par and figure out how to play that game…or you can’t. It’s as simple as that. I guess since he played on tour saying Scratch player to him had a completely different meaning than to Recreational Players, which I learned a long time ago…that’s all I ever was…a decent recreational player.

#85

This would be a good premise for “the match” type thing

Pair up some celebs scratch / plus handis and have them play lpga tour pro… 6600-6800… really fast greens and a course that puts a premium on short game

Would be interesting to watch… unfortunately i think it is a “lose/lose” for the lpga tour pro so may be some limited interest

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#86

It could drive viewership, a la Bobby Riggs “Battle of The Sexes”…maybe. I don’t see e.g., Nelly Korda, looking forward to getting pantsed on National TV by some blowhard club champion though. (And there’s intriguing evidence that Riggs threw the match.)

How’re their proximity stats on approach versus the men?

#87

Basketball and soccer are way different than golf imo.

In basketball and soccer, there’s actually direct physical space being contested by the individuals on each team and teenage boys who have gone through puberty are simply going to be more physically developed than women.

Whereas on a golf course, the skill needed to control the ball around the course is less a function of power and athleticism and more one of finesse.

If we put a high school boys basketball team up against a WNBA team in a game of around the world, I’m thinking that WNBA team dominates them from a shooting skill perspective.

It’s just an apples to oranges comparison.

#88

Ditto.

Even a guy like Fish who is a +2, that mean his 8 best rounds out his last 20 average that likely he’s playing a “home” golf course that’s he’s seen hundreds of times to achieve that handicap.

Competition golf is definitely another factor as amateurs generally score higher than their recreational rounds and every putt is played into the hole. Also, equitable stroke control isn’t a thing when we’re watching them on TV but I know plenty of people who “pick up” once they reach their ESC limit on a hole. Which to my understanding, is not the intent of that at all but hey, better than sandbagging…

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#89

Some of these ladies can really play, anyone tee off 265+ in the fairway can play with almost anyone with a few exceptions, of course.

IMHO, there is a huge difference between an index holder who accumulated the data mainly just from home course, and one who is a traveling golfer who plays at all sorts of different layout and locations.
A traveling scratch player deserves a plus index rating and someone who plays mainly only the home course would add another few on the index points.
A traveling -6 index holder will probably have an edge over a -2 home course golfer.
As we develop a golfer’s compatibility, usually we would encourage them to travel the region to play different and more difficult golf course than their home course, to widen their scope of learning and force them to use better golf course management.
Some local golf clubs have year round tournaments all over the State. Some love the experience and a few don’t enjoy the challenge.

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#90

Hah I love to pick up at my ESC!! I don’t want to grind over a quad!!

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#92

Only because I have had the wonderful opportunity to play with some very elite players in my lifetime! To quote JT… “yes, we are that good!” Please stop believing the hype some golf systems guy wants to feed you…That the pros aren’t as good as we think. Good golf is good golf and breaking 80 or 75 or 70 for a recreational player is great and we have something to aspire to. Aspiring to “scratch” is awesome…you are trying to play better golf. Look I played Merion 3 days after Rosey won. It’s not a long course, by any stretch (I shot well over 100, I stopped counting). You could take 4 “scratch” players and use their best ball over 4 days and you’d be double digits over par! Whether it’s an LPGA pro, a Champions pro or a PGA pro. They are—that good and Nellie Korda (who is the best in world at the moment) would not get Pantsed by some “scratch” player unless her game was way off or she could only play the course with a Wedge and a putter :rofl:!

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#93

Yes,
It’s very different to be an observer than actual participant.
They are , out of this world, and they will tell that they could not be consistently at the excellent level all the time, but they’re that good.

You’re right, we are too relying on the modern data and so call tech. Forgetting it is only a tool to help us, not dominating our life.

Just take a look at the GPS users on the roadways; I rest my case !

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#94

To put it in perspective using todays HDCP system. I am a recreational golfer, even when I was a Golf Professional, I was a recreational Golfer. My best was a -2.7 and that was playing everyday! Today, Playing about 35 rounds a year, and just range ratting it, I consider it amazing that I can even hit a ball in the correct general direction I am aiming. So yea there is some talent there for us recreational players and it’s super to strive to get to scratch! It’s fun and an interesting goal. Back to the point, so most tour professionals are at least around a +5 or 6, I think I read somewhere that TDub at one point was a +8. Talk about 50 degrees of separation. So imagine me telling a 0 handicap guy on here you got to shave 5-6 more strokes off your current Handicap. I read Adam Young saying they are not that good. Well I really disagree with that statement, I’m certain, as good as he is, he wouldn’t wager his house against a guy like Lee Westwood, who is an older middle of the road golfer now only getting 3 a side. No they don’t hit 60% of FW, No they don’t make 50% of putts over 10ft, No they don’t hit 68% GIR, They are still gonna bury you! BTW…no one does. To me this weekend really showcased that. There were some guys that could hit it long, for all intents and purposes they are very, very good players. I think +7 won on the amateur side over 3 days playing the same tees. I just compared to DK at -16… there were several women that smoked his butt! Yes they are that good and yes, that is the difference between a recreational scratch golfer, or a good scratch golfer… and don’t think these retired multi-millionaire retired sports guys don’t play a ton of golf… and touring pros…no matter gender!

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#95

All points valid and may I add that the system overlooked where these PGA players play at. Not some Muni courses but PGA tournament ready golf courses. Long and difficult pin placement.
Talk about not only GIR but which part of the green to place ( or to miss) the approach to shot a score they post.
Anyone saying that these player are not that good… they need to show me, that they could put their money where their mouth is. The easiest first step is to qualify getting on the Tour Circuit. Be the top 125 golfers and makes minimum a million a year. If someone tells me that they don’t have the time because they need to take care of their business…I’d call it a BS for no one will refuse a 7 figure annual income. Price money plus endorsement.
Why do we think so many cross athletes chose golf instead of other sports ? Yes, they’re bigger and taller and younger these days. Some of them could qualify to join other professional sports. The reward is too good, so , anyone say these guys are not that good is all but sour grape.
Also, if they golf a recreational round or even the Pro-Am round with the PGA players; the rounds played without anything riding on it is totally different than a tournament round.
I know for a fact, when I had a casual round with a plus golfer ( no one on the PGA Tour ), sometimes I’d also think that these guys are good but not that good. Forgot that they’re having fun with friends and not fighting for their pay check. A huge difference in how they play.

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#96

I’ll say it to you, the last round round I played with a Touring Pro was on a visit to my old college in 30 + years ago…it was fall and he had just won a major. We just were tooling around in the fall at a 6300yd semi private course up the road from school. He was just messing around, the course was soft, ruff was maybe an inch, greens were slowish… from what he was used too but fast for us…he tossed up a 58!

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#97

Just to be fair @Adamyounggolf isn’t saying “they are not that good”…what he is saying is that we need to manage our expectations and realize that even the best in the world (the top .01%) aren’t perfect on a golf course and with swings day to day…so we have no right to set those expectations for ourselves.

Just my $.02

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#98

Believe me I know about managing expectations! The biggest mistake I see alot of golfers make is comparing statistics to Pro Player stats. Just don’t do that… I’m just happy I can keep it on the planet in general! When I get to within 120yd to 85yd, my expectation changes, I do have loftier expectations for me. It’s the strength of MY game… Then the expectations change again on a putting surface…in general… we just aren’t that good…LOL! At least I’m not!

#99

There is nothing wrong with living in the moment believing or fantasizing we’re a better golfer than who we really are.
Part of the “escape” to the golf course. No sin in it unless one starts to ruin the day for the others by throwing clubs and complain loudly over a bad shot.
Like they said, “you’re not good enough to complain of the bad shots”.

#100

It’s interesting because I feel like at times we don’t realize how good a pro really is, but in other cases we over-estimate how good they are. We see players winning tournaments by stuffing wedges inside 10 ft from 100 yards and not missing any putts inside 10 ft, but that’s not their “average” outcome for those shots and in that respect we can tend to assume they are better than their statistics show.

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#101

I actually really enjoyed attending a tournament live…much different than watching on TV. I went to the Phoenix Open (now the Waste Management) twice and loved seeing all of the shots…rather than just the ones on TV. It gave me a perspective on a few fronts:

  • Not every shot a pro hits is perfect
  • Holy crap they are so much better than I’ll ever be. The sound and trajectory are out of this world different and their much higher swing speeds look effortless. Different planet for sure.
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