If that one shot is a chunk “most of the time”, your average will be pretty poor. But knowing that average will help you make better choices. I’m with @CoryO, and I’ve experienced it on the course, I’ll average closer to the pin from 45 yards than I will from 90.
What are the causes of topped shots?
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Mostly early extension.
I hit my fair share of thin 3 woods or tops but typically they are on line so I just fire away with reckless abandon. Even if you are 300yds and only smack it 150yds, you are still have a good opportunity to get par. If there is water up front, that’s a different story entirely.
Post your stats on the other thread bro!
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Wait I thought it was picking your head up!
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Hahaha. Isn’t that what we all learn?!
I usually play it old school and lay up to a preferred distance (90 - 100 yards) if I know I can’t get get home or really close to the green on 2 of the 4 par 5s at my home course. The greens on those two holes are very small, with a lot of undulation, and I prefer a full swing wedge to get more spin on the ball hitting into those greens.
Easy test. Wail the 3W, pick up your ball and move it back 70y. Compare scores.
Then advance token to chipping green.
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What a great video, it shows that even the ones that practice for hours every day and play this as their income, still hits shots like us once in a blue moon.
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I do the same…i am amazed at how soft the shot lands and how much feel i seem to have. This forum has been amazing on little things…but this concept is truly game changing to me from 75 yards in.
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I have been thinking about this alot as par 5 scoring is killing me. I keep coming back to the “advance the ball as far as possible, without risking penalty” rule.
A big piece of “not risking penalty” is staying “comfortable”. You can throw generic strokes gained data out the window if you don’t feel comfortable with the club, a lie, trouble up ahead, tight landing window, etc. as your results are going to start to skew towards your worst performance outcomes if you have the head trash going.
I don’t think I have done a good job of practicing 3w and hybrid off the deck on the practice tee. If I were to test myself with a performance game of say “hit groups of 5 balls into a 30 yd fairway, give 7 yds of buffer to one side, and make one side “dead”” I would clearly see that I am not hitting those clubs consistently enough to pull them out with 30 yds or less of landing area on a par 5.
Most golfers don’t simulate pressure in practice, and you are going to feel pressure when you pull out the long clubs and start having those “lets make birdie” thoughts float around.
I am recommitting to laying up to 3/4 par 5’s on my course. One par 5 is wide open and is a clear 3w. The rest have landing areas of less than 30 yd wide coming in and have trouble around the green. I am consistently hitting it into the sh*t on these holes and making double.
Additionally, I am going to add hybrid and 3w games into my practice. All the focus is going to be on simulating pressure and hitting it solid. Until I start simulating 85%+ execution on the practice tee, I will be playing conservative out on the course.
I won’t be “playing to a number” and the goal will still be to get to 100 yds or less in on my 3rd shot. The conclusion is that my 4i or 5i is the best “risk / return” profile at the moment
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I guess I’m lucky that I rarely have to worry about that at my home course. There are only 2 par 5’s to start with and they both have OB the whole left side. For me (and my draw) it’s too big a risk going OB and I generally don’t have quite enough firepower to get on the green.
I’ve actually been laying farther back on the 1st par 5 as it provides a level lie. Once you get inside 100 yds the rough narrows in (and it’s thick), there are bunkers and the fairway is like motocross whoop de doos…it’s a roll of the dice to get a nice lie. I will consider 3w on the 2nd par 5, but the tee shot needs to be on the very right side of the fairway where it’s level. The middle has more big whoop de doos and you’re either on the slope or in a valley that will block a wood shot. For me though the OB left is always looming.
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I’ve been thinking about this more and more… I think to a certain extent it needs to go back to committing to a swing.
I have a noted hatred of a par 5 on my home course… I played it last week and hit a decent drive, and positioned myself for a good second shot… it’s an uphill, blind shot that I hate… I can and have hit multiple different second shots with a variety of success…
This time, I committed myself to a hybrid, focused on making a good swing and worried less about distance than swinging the club well… this works for me and I ended up in the middle of the fairway with 100 yards left (3rd shot I hit well but didn’t check the way I expected and I overhit a downhill put for my worst putt of the day).
Overall, I think you need to find the shot you are comfortable with and feel confident with standing over the ball… and if it’s not getting you the result you want, practice whatever you want to be able to do on the range and work on bringing it to the course.
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Today I played the par 5’s at plus 1. Had a really good chance at being -1 missed two birdie putts by inches. Got super unlucky on the first par five as it hung up on the edge of the bunker and had no shot from there ended up with bogey. The thing I did today is just play driver 7 iron. Didn’t try for the green in two and each of the other three par 5’s I gave myself a really good look at birdie with that approach. I think it took a bit of pressure off trying to “go” for it, even though it was in the range. Instead, I had a easy little pitch into the green and good look at putts for birdie.
I think it behooves us all to rethink strategy on the holes we play and see if we can approach them better / differently… My home course has 4 par 5s.
3 - Easiest to hit in 2, big green front to back, bunkered but has plenty of room up front to miss it short… For me, if I have a look into it, it’s worth going for… I’m rarely going to miss it offline far enough to cost me a shot.
6 - The par 5 I hate most… Currently it’s a 3 shot hole (down the hill, up the hill blind, third shot into a big green with lots of contours). If I can get my CHS to 120, I can carry the hill… It’s a dumb IF, but I’m working on it.
11 - Probably the most strategic par 5 for me… Dog leg at about 250 yards, good three wood can put me to 200+ yards in (but brings a front bunker into play)… Driver requires a draw or bunkers and sand are my destiny… I’m still working on this one! Second shot is also a beast with two large bunkers up front and no room behind the green… a 50-100 yard third shot probably makes the most sense… I need to spend some time mapping this out…
15 - They took down the tree guarding the dogleg… It’s fundamentally changed the hole… Driver over the corner, 5 iron in… I like it! (the tree protecting it was there for 50 years… it died… before I contended with rough and OB right…). Honestly, there is less trouble behind the green than infront of it, so swinging away makes sense.
My overall strategy as a decently long player is try to get home in 2, but don’t push it… I know where I can miss from 200+ yards, so I make sure I try to miss that direction… I’m also working on improving my wedge game from 50+ yards, so hopefully that will lower my average when I can’t get there in 2.
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It was great to read this today as I have found that I have played atleast one par 5 really bad for the last 5/6 rounds I have played.
It comes down to me being too aggressive in not ideal situations. (i.e. I have had to hit perfect shots). I just needed to layup to 50-80 yards away instead of trying to get near the green. I also find that my approach game from 50-80 yards is pretty strong as I do love the shots to play from here.
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Couple of things to add from my perspective. First, not all Par 5’s are the same. While Mark’s data makes complete sense the design for that particular hole will dictate your strategy. #5 at my club is a tree lined double dogleg with an elevated green that slopes hard from back to front and coffin bunkers protecting both sides. Plus you do not want to go off the back. Going driver, 4W puts me normally 50-55 yards. With it being elevated you’re uphill. For me its a recipe to either be short or blade it off the back. If I go 3h on my second, I’m usually around 77-80 yards with a flatter lie. That’s a 3/4 LW for me all day.
I agree that you have to make your choices for today based on the skills you have today. However, with a little improvement to your partial wedge game, you’ll be able to be consistently closer hitting from 50 yards than you will from 80 yards. I found that, even without specifically practicing them, I was closer with “uncomfortable” partial wedges than I was with “confident-feeling” full wedges. Again, I’m assuming that both areas are similarly flat, that there isn’t anything to really differentiate the lies other than the distance to the flag.
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Yes, partial shots are an area of improvement but if you read again, 50-55 is elevated (uphill lie). 77-80 is flat. Totally confident with that 3/4 LW. Also daily pin will dictate approach too. Need to ensure you have a chance at a makeable putt.