Second Shot into a Par 5

Strategy
#1

So imagine you’re on a 550 yard Par 5. Hit a very nice drive 270 yards (very nice for me at least) and now have 280 in. No particular trouble on the way to the green. Everything about strokes gained tells us that we should with the club that’ll get closest to the green in this situation, so the 3 wood.

Ideal situation with the 3 wood is I hit it ~240 yards and now have a 40 yard pitch in. Sounds great, except for the fact that the 3 wood as a club and the 40-50 yard pitch are two of the things I’m least comfortable with. So what’s the “right” decision here?

Personally, I’m trying to trust the data these days(and hey, I guess that means three wood and half-wedge practice), but there’s still some part of my brain that says I should hit the six iron and sand wedge full. All the thinking leads to an uncommitted shot and obviously less than ideal results.

How are you all approaching those second shots into Par 5’s these days? Assuming no trouble ahead, are you with the data on getting it as close to the green as possible, or still in the old-school layup crowd? No judgement either way, just curious to see opinions.

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#2

The correct play is getting it up as close as possible without taking on excessive risk.

However, if you do have some serious problems with 3-wood and those 40-50 yard wedge shots, in a perfect world you want to sort those out. If not, and you’re very confident that club and wedge yardage could result in a big mistake, then perhaps you can lay up with a shorter club (hybrid/long iron) and leave yourself a wedge yardage you won’t mangle.

That being said, a lot of players assume they are worse with a 40-50 yard wedge shot than a 100 yard shot, and if you tested both you’d likely see a closer proximity on average with the shorter yardage. Mark Broadie had some great data on this in Every Shot Counts. Of course, there are always exceptions.

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#3

The one place in golf you don’t want to have confidence - having confidence in your mistakes :wink:

I’m sure if I got myself on a launch monitor and hit 90 yard and 45 yard shots, my 45 yard shots would have a much tighter dispersion. Translating that to the course is always the hard part. Thanks for the comments!

#4

It’s always hard to disagree with @jon!

As generic advice, I’d say you should take some time and see how much better or worse you are from different distances… if you can figure out a good way to test 10 yard gaps, it would probably be interesting to see your dispersion… A hitting bay would be great for this.

In the actual moment, with the skills and fears you have mentioned… I think it makes more sense to hit a long iron you are comfortable with to . a distance you “like”, but you should understand this is a sub-optimal long term strategy and a good place for quick improvement. (I say that not as a criticism, but as something you should note for yourself to add to your list of things to practice)

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#5

Constructive criticism is always appreciated! I’ve been working on the three wood into my home net hitting foam balls, so not ideal, but still practice. Hitting that shot on the course as well when I find myself in the situation these days, so eventually I’ll get it.

#6

I’m another one who will try to get as close as possible. My “width” isn’t much tighter with a hybrid than with a 3-wood, so I’m hitting 3-wood. I’m reasonably comfortable with the remaining 50 or 60 yard shot, but that’s because I’ve forced myself to try them more often over the past few years. Even when I first started doing that, I was surprised to find that I was reasonably proficient, even when I didn’t feel comfortable.
But your choices have to be based on your own tendencies. If you gain a LOT of accuracy by using a shorter club for your second shot, it might be worthwhile giving up the distance. If you’re really inconsistent with that 40 or 50 yard third shot, there may not be an advantage in getting that close. I’d recommend that you give the “closer is better” strategy a try in casual play, you may be surprised how quickly your brain adjusts.
And I’m saying this as a guy who took a double on Saturday when I push-faded a 3-wood into some junk on a par 5. It was the right choice, just bad execution, my provisional was just off the green. Same player, more experience.

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#7

To be clear, these aren’t my findings. I fell victim to the “lay up to your favorite yardage” myth for years. I’ll credit people like @ScottFawcettDECADE and Mark Broadie for changing my mind!

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#8

Very important mindset to keep there!

#9

I used to be terrified of intermediate wedge shots. Now they’re some of my favorite shots. It’s all about finding a technique you can rely on and working on the variability of the distances until you have them dialed in. We’ve referred to Pelz and Sieckmann in other threads, but their work is very helpful in this arena.

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#10

Very important point here. Sometimes we let our results strike fear into us on the course. I have countless examples of making the right strategic decision, but having poor execution. It does not mean you should not make the same choice (unless something is really wrong that you need to work on). That’s just part of golf!

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#11

I’m really looking forward to mastering Sieckmann’s stuff… the brief time I spent on his finesse chipping was awesome… the power wedge stuff is basically what I had been doing, but I understand the principles better!

I think the next evolution in my improvement outside of putting is improving my scoring from 100 yards and in!

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#12

I can relate to what he says. In my wedge play the cutoff is somewhere around 40-50 yards where I am moving from that “normal” wedge swing to a more finesse/feel move.

#13

Yes, sometimes the difference between the statistically correct play and what feels “correct” based on your perceived tendencies is skill development + developing confidence in those skills

You need to subconsciously “know” that you are comfortable with both shots and commit

#14

I think there’s something to be said for expectations setting as well. I think there’s a part of me that expects to put a 50 yard shot to 5 feet or less every time, putting a lot of pressure on it. Tour average proximity from the fairway 50-75 yards away is over 16’.

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#15

If l am in a pressure situation and I get an interrupting thought like “don’t yank this 3wood”, you may see me go back and get the hybrid

The C in decade is for commitment. If you can’t get committed to the statistically correct play, I don’t think it is the correct play AT THAT MOMENT

That means its time to play some practice rounds and program great feelings and confidence so you can be ready to recall that skill with some pressure on

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#16

@jon would call this strategy avoidance : )

I want to develop the skill, just don’t want it to cost money in the mean time : )

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#17

I don’t want to seem like I am above this either. I struggle with these same thoughts on the course myself!

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#18

Average Recreational Hacker here.

For me, unfortunately there’s no such thing as a second shot -INTO- the green on Par 5 - my second shot is always positional.

I don’t have a “set” strategy - I let the circumstances … plus my swing comfort level that day … inform the shot / club / attempted distance decision.

That said … where possible, for me, I will try to advance the ball to as close as possible to the green - hoping for a chance to chip it close … for a possible 1 putt … for a potential birdie opportunity.

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#19

If I’m within a reachable distance with any club in my bag, I’m swinging away and going for it. I have enough confidence in my ball-striking to hit the distance I need and know my dispersion shouldn’t be enough to put me way out of position even on a miss - granted once in a while I’m just as susceptible to the BIG miss as anyone else.

If there’s no way I’m getting there or there’s trouble all around, I’ll lay up to a comfortable yardage.

I’m going for it and at it 90% of the time, though.

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#20

I think it’s interesting to note that you do t have to hit a wedge from 40-80 yards and try and get it close. I actually like to hit I hybrid from that distance, especially if the area is tight. I can hit it like a very strong putter and get it to stop somewhere on the green and feel a lot more confident with that shot, right now and it’s my go to in tournaments, than I do sticking a wedge close. I do practice the wedge shots when I’m just playing a friendly round just so I can get the experience. I say try the hybrid idea and see if you like it. It’s hard to hit a hybrid real bad with a laid off swing, because it’s very much like a putter.

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