Question from a slicer

Practice
#1

Assume it a given that much of my slice comes from a 10 degree outside-in swing path. And at 70 years old that swing style won’t change much.

So if I cannot change swing style, why not change my stance/orientation? If a straight-on stance gives a 10 degree outside-in path, if I closed my stance 8 degrees, would that result in only a 2 degree outside-in path? My experiments do indicate some improvement.

If anyone can point me to discussions about altering stance to reduce a slice, I would be grateful.

For extra credit, what’s the prevailing thought on holding the club at address to moderate a slice?

Thanks

#2

Hooding the club. Darn spellcheck.

#3

I’m no golf pro, but wouldn’t closing your stance by 8 degrees still leave the club face way open (compared to club path) at impact, still giving you a slice? I think you’re going to have to fix your club path issues…

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#4

Adjusting your address position is a band aid fix.
You can play the slice if you are consistent in the result. I know a guy will take his tee shot over the water hazards on the left and slice it back into the middle of the fairway.
You can find out what cause the slice you have. This will take a little investigation by a pair of experience eyes. This will be a more permanent fix.
Do you know why you com across the golf ball at 10 degree O-T-I angle? How do you know it is 10 degree and not 5 or 15?
Without seeing your swing, it’ll be anyone’s guess.
Launch monitor will show you the data of angle of swing path, attack… but can not tell you the cause nor can it offer a remedy.
Age has very little to do with how you set up and execute a golf shot. Seniors might lose some distance comparing to the youthful past, but should have no bearing on the execution of the golf swing.
If we understand the cause of a slice or a hood, it’ll be rather easy to fix the issue and be able to offer a more permanent solution.
One thing the lessons could not fix, is the shear power for distance. That, will be more difficult to remedy.
I kept telling my buddies the golf swing is not a myth that could not be had. Anyone could be a decent golfer.
Although, I had found the young children and the open minded golfers could accept the concept much easier.
where those already convinced that golf is difficult to learn… will not be able to.

#5

vote for gripping the club with the face rotated closed a bit and use your regular swing. Test it out to find out how much closed the face needs to be to hit a straight shot. Sure it might be band aid fix but it will make your game more functional and a squarer face will help you drive it further.

I used to do this until one day I hooked 2 out off bounds in a row and then knew I didn’t need to close the face anymore.

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#6

Unless one is intentionally trying to hook or to draw a golf shot, closing the club face is not a more permanent fix for a slicer.
I would suggest to look at the swing path before changing the face angle.
In fact the other school of thoughts on this is to have a square club face ( or even have it open slightly ) with the shoulders, hips and the heels aligned parallel to the target line. It will encourage one to close the club face while going through the impact, by the swing path.
If one still employs the out to in swing path with the closed club face, it will either pull hook or produce a slice by the clockwise spin produced by the closed face and O-T-I swing path.
Aim the club face and body alignment square, learn to swing along the alignment. many will bring the golf club to the top in a different path, but all the good golfers will manage to return the golf club face square to the golf ball. The swing path will determine the ball flight.

#7

That ball flight only applies if the face is too closed. Done right it will produce a straighter shot ie change from slice to fade or even straighter.

#8

This is for a RH golfer, My thought would be this, especially since you say you Do Not want to make wholesale changes to your swing… which at age 70 is going to require work, alot of it. Newsflash!!! No matter what you do, it’s going to require a little bit of work and investigation. 10 degrees is alot and you are losing massive distance. First things first. Start with your grip. You have to make sure those Vs are pointing to your right shoulder, maybe what feels like even just a little past. If your grip is too weak you cannot rotate everything properly with your forearms and shoulders on the downswing, impact and follow through. Too strong, then you get double-cross pulls, toppers, low–line drive banana-balls because that encourages an over rotation of the right forearms, imparting more side-spin on a perfect impact (when you do hit one squarely). Not what you want either because you haven’t changed the path of the clubface problem you actually have. Everything starts with that basic fundamental. Now, another Newsflash!!! If you are able, with a little work to dial your ball flight in, there’s nothing wrong with playing that “slicer” ball flight, Embrace that, just remember your target and alignment is always going to be left rough, ALWAYS! You have to learn, in your mind, your target, with that kind of ball flight might be just to the right of the treeline on the left, or left of the fairway. That takes work too, you need to know which way your general dispersion of like 20 balls are with each club. If you can do that, you do realize you have the golfers dream…you will have successfully eliminated half the golf course… that’s an incredible advantage to have in your arsenal. Your actual target has changed, the end result will lead to more FW and Greens… it’s the finish result of the ball, BUT that is difficult to do, the mind wants to aim down the FW, you have to work on aimpoint, accept that you missed yor actual target by alot. Third, I would bet you a quarter, as far as your swing, you are standing or lifting up prior to impact meaning, you are not completely finishing your rotation around your spine. You must have a total commitment to that swing rotation, if not your release is too early, you are ending up with what is affectionately known as coming over the top or chopping wood. We want to work on limiting that…it is still work with your video camera. Don’t want you to actually change your swing at all, just executing a fundamental of basic rotation. Stop trying to watch the ball going down the aim line! Your head should look like its behind the ball all the way through impact and your right shoulder will bring it up, because it does! That will cut down on that 10 degree, probably by as much as 5 degrees. Still is going to take range work. Really work on the basics, The basics work! If all else fails take a 6packs worth of lessons from your local PGA pro! Happy New Year and Good Luck!

#9

I work at a course and play on one of the simulators often. That shows my swing path anywhere from 2 to 12 degrees left, usually closer to 12, so I assume a 10 degree average.

I do compensate by aiming left and fading/slicing back in play. But the lost yardage is frustrating.

With focus and repetition I can get the path to near dead-on, but still get fade/slice action. Am I right then that my bigger problem is in my hands / release and squaring the club?

#10

This technique, with a very strong grip, is my MO. I get around the course OK but hate the lost yardage resulting from my technique.

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#11

It’s like the draw faced driver, that concept had been out for ages, and, did it work? None had been selling well to cure the number one issue with most new golfers.
Swing path dominate the direction and the spin, may that be the latitude or longitude. If closing the club face will cure the slicing issue, come back and tell us after you put it to practice for awhile.

#12

If you work at a golf course, congratulation, for in most cases you will get unlimited range balls and free golf off the rush hour ( outside of your scheduled work hours of course ). Take advantage of this, get out to the driving range or the golf course instead of using the L/M. Unless it’s in the dead of the Winter months.

The club head is connect to the shaft, grip, then your hands, arm and shoulders which connect to the core ( with spine which carrieded by the hip all the way down to the ground level).
It sounds like too many parts to be consciously connected, however, to change your logic path and thinking. We do not contemplate much when we throw a basketball to the hoop while running, and we do not calculate where the baseball will land before we catch it while running at full speed and looking back and up for the ball.
EVERYTHING WILL FALL INTO PLACES, if we remember to keep the arms connected to the core while coming back down to to impact on a golf swing.
Most out-to-in swing path is caused by improper set up. If we have the grip, alignment, posture all relatively correct, just set the club at the top and come back into the golf ball, with the left side leading and the right side pushing all working together. Never slashing at the golf ball. Learn the moment to let which side play their dominate role.
Think keeping the club head on track and gradually learn to exert more force behind the swing.
Except for the extreme body shape, most the beginner of golfers will learn how to advance the golf ball in the general intended direction, with proper practice.

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#13

Without actually seeing your swing, it’s difficult to Dx. I did not say strong grip. I said make sure the Vs are pointing to your right shoulder. That’s a standard grip, not a strong grip. Check Hogan’s #1 Modern Fundamental. Once you start screwing around with overly strong or weak grips …you are exacerbating your flaw. So your swing path varies! Really not good. A 10 degree variance is not consistent. You should not vary more than 2-3 degrees on every swing. If you have access to the monitor, that helps and knowing you can form a constant open path of 2-3 degrees is still a target down the Left side of the FW, Hogan played that ball flight from 1950 onward. 12 degrees is a target that’s not on the course, you are feeling you have to aim into the woods. 12 degrees is way over the top…no doubt in my mind. That is usually caused by poor execution of the fundamentals. I will guarantee you that, if you recorded yourself from behind and from side, you will find your release is early because you are not rotating around a solid foundation and maintaining that all the way through your swing. My teacher 40 years ago told me, unless someone yells for you to look at a naked girl running across the FW, Your head should stay in a constant position behind the ball at address and should not come up until your right shoulder brings it up which means you have already made impact and the clubhead should feel like it is already past your left knee. Try repetitions with your swing in slow motion to feel the positions, do this drill alot. then after 20 or so slo-mo practice swings, start to speed up using a ball on the range. You are not looking to hit the ball more than 20-30 yards as you speed up to like 85% of as fast as you can swing, without losing your balance (swaying/falling backwards or forwards). Yea, it looks stupid on the range, but it’s how you build a repeatable swing from the ground up bit by bit. Maintaining balance rotating around your lower body… the core (breastbone ) should feel its in a constant position. If it isn’t, you’re coming up early, the players eye/hand coordination takes over, and you chop wood. Just so you are aware, During a full speed golf swing, your right shoulder coming through and bringing up your head… is a like a 20th of a second. At 70 you should have no problem pumping a ball out 190-205 yds off the tee with driver. To me it sounds like you are trying to hit the.ball. Anyone can hit a ball. Players today Do Not have Hit the Ball coaches do they? No, they all have Swing Coaches. Once the light bulb goes off in your brain during practice to stop hitting the ball with a golf club and you start swinging the club and letting the ball be in the way of that swing… letting however you want to swing that club work for you, that’s the secret. Grip, Solid Foundation or Stance, Rotation around that Foundation back and through, Balance, Practice then adds what? Speed! Speed of swing and that energy causes ball speed off the club face…hence distance, Doing those properly will deliver the club squarely to the ball limiting spin. One thing you have to realize, there is no cure for a bad swing, there is no magic ball, there is no magic club, there are no magic beans. You have to put in the work to build YOUR SWING. Not your HIT. There is no right or wrong swing either, back in the day, there were alot of different swings as opposed to the robot looking swings the players have today. BUT, go online and watch slo-mo swings doing back to Bobby Jones… all of the players have the EXACT same foundation, impact, spine tilt, 54-55 degree shoulder tilt at impact, head down behind the ball… videos don’t lie.

#14

Seeing all the slicers over 65 years of playing. One thing they all have in common is that they all aim at the middle or right of the fairway. They know subconsciously that their path is to the left and then to counter that, they open the club face. Causing a big slice right.
The solution is to aim left with the intention of playing a slice. Then you will not open the clubface and the result will be a controlled fade. Go ahead and swing hard.

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#15

Murv…. The solution is to fix the swing. Slicing/Hooking is bad caused by a flaw or flaws in your execution of a swing, most likely starting with a poor grip and poor foundation. There is nothing wrong with Fading or Drawing…. Those are caused by your own natural tendencies. You can play with a Slice or Hook, but you will have a lot of very bad outcomes. Like I said, golfers that try and HIT the ball are usually very poor players, but you can get around the layout, just put your pencil away and enjoy. You will make the occasional birdie or par, just with zero consistency and no way to know how that happened. How’s the saying go? Even blind squirrels find acorns too! Golfers that execute a consistent SWING, well they actually can manage around a course as the architect intended with a lot less mistakes than a hitter of the golf ball Agree?

#16

I did use this technique and it resulted in many months of straighter shots and until my swingpath fixed itself and I started hooking and all my shots started gong right to left

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#17

I’m saying…the solution to fixing his swing is in his set up and aim. Simply by aiming more to the left will result in a lesser over the top swing.

#18

We will seriously disagree on this point. Like I said earlier in the thread, anyone can maneuver their way around any layout, in hr’s case, with a 12% out to in swing path, simply pick a target off the planet to the Left and the finished result will be a very weak shot in the FW. The shot will most likely be 40 to 50 yds short, distance wise of his capability AND praying he doesn’t top it or pull it! Most likely, on his drives, imparting a side Spin Rate of over 4000 rpms. I haven’t even seen his swing and told him set his grip according to Hogans First Fundamental…because I knew it was a poor grip one way or the other. Low and behold, he says he is using an overly strong grip. When you use an overly strong grip, the tendency is to over rotate your forearms on an out to in swing path resulting in dead pulls, toppers or a weak banana flight into the FW. My suggestion is to fix his swing. People who have the banana, or the duck, have serious swing flaws and tend to try and HIT the golf ball as hard as they can with a crooked stick… as a matter of fact, most amateur, weekend players, HIT their golf ball. You can develop, with a little work, a SWING, even at age 70, that will make the game a little more enjoyable. Again there are no magic balls or clubs that will fix the issue, aiming way left, or way right for that matter doesn’t cure coming out of your posture and causing a 12-14% over the top, out to in swing path. You want to get that down to 2-4%. Look, most of Hogan’s secrets…only worked for Hogan and no one else. That said, applying a good grip, a proper base that begins the turns that need to occur by properly winding up and then unwinding transferring that energy to an impact point on the golf ball… Hogan’s Fundamentals are a gold standard! Again, I don’t give 2 hoots what your swing looks like… if you research, you will find, no matter what, good players all execute, a square clubface at impact in their swings at a controllable high speed.

#19

Be mindful of where the club head is and what it’s doing. Don’t need to analyze the golf swing to the finest detail.
Knowing the collected data information will definitely help the start of understanding the issue but not a complete solution.
If someone who does not have the time to put in the practice to correct a flaw in the swing path, then, the temporary band-aid fix will be attracted to them.

#20

I have the time but cant be bothered practicing on the range. I practice by playing 6x a week and trying different things on the course. Now my swing is in to out hitting a pull draw.