Question about Rules and Personal Thoughts

Dunno if anyone comes on here alot any longer… But if you do, I’d like an opinion because I just read a complaint about this years Open Championship Set-up. On #18 they have an “internal” OB marker going up the right side. How do you feel about internal OB? I personally don’t like them, but I’ll get to that later. My old course had one going down 14 fairway… it was OB if you hit it right over to 16 fairway, but coming down 16 fairway, if you hit it Right into 14 fairway it wasn’t OB. I know why it was done, and when they played a PRO Tournament there it was removed. The simple answer is “Don’t hit it there!”… But at the OPEN, and you’ll see the stupidity of how they drew it up…if it’s on the course it should be in play. Now…I’d rather see the HEATHER grown 2 ft high and watch them try and hack outta that because that’s going to be more penal than stroke and distance. IMO, if it’s on the course and there is no safety issue… it’s in play. (remember Spieth hit one off the planet at The OPEN he won.) Just my thoughts… Hope everyone’s been doing ok!

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Here’s a second complaint They are using the wide toothed rakes for the bunkers. They leave pretty big ruts in the sand… We have those at my course… We have an unwritten at the course when there’s a tourney… Turn it upside down and smooth it out…LOL! If you don’t it’s as bad as footprint!


Internal O.B. is quite common overseas where the available land for golf course is limited. I had encountered the internal O.B. both in S.E. Asia and Western Europe. I had even encountered grave sites on the side of the fairway, where the land was purchased with the condition that the existing grave sites remain on the spot.
Same with the bunker.
Golfers here are spoiled by the pristine condition on their golf courses. There is no other place kept their golf courses like we do here.
Irrigation will be one of the main issue of golf course maintenance as the water supply will be tight owing to the climate change and the population growth.
So get ready for brown fairway and rough in the near future. With the rounds played at most of the public golf courses here, the condition will be rough.

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We have internal OB at our course in a few spots.

On hole #2 dogleg right there is OB all along the right side. Some say it’s to protect the players on #17 fairway and to keep big hitters from really shortening the hole, but there are a LOT of tall trees doing that job. A big hitter can still go up and over the corner (depending on the teeing location) risking OB to shorten the hole.

Playing #3 a dogleg left there is now internal OB all along the left side for the same reason, but again there are a lot of very tall trees in the way. Still the risk of going OB is a bigger deterrent than the trees.

Personally I don’t really care for it. I think the trees provide enough protection and create a real risk/reward. Maybe when internal OB was decided the trees were much smaller so it made more sense and forced you to play the hole the way it was intended. Now it’s risky even for a big hitter as you really have to elevate your tee shot quickly and carry a long ways on the right line. We have 2 more doglegs like this and even the +300 yard hitters won’t go for it unless they are in a scramble or already having a horrible round. It’s just incredibly hard to get the shot perfect enough to get the reward.

I prefer being able to play from anywhere on the course because I play for fun, but if that’s the rule then “just don’t hit it there”.


Looking at your picture, and from the description, my GUESS is that area is being marked off to allow for spectators and pedestrians…?

Otherwise I see your point and agree … if it were, say, a native area that people should stay out of then mark it off as such.

Otoh not sure I agree about the bunker rakes … they are supposed to be hazards and potentially penalize the player a shot.

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From reading up a bit more, I got the impression that some holes are made “tougher”. This year the yardage is shorter but more difficult to score low. Can’t bomb away on each hole and hope to get away with it.
The risk and reward factor will be more pronounced.
We should listen up, watch and learn.
Continue to extend the length of the golf course is not the perfect solution. we don’t want to turn this game into a long drive contest, which is a totally different animal…
Make it tougher to score low, will be a better solution.

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There are 4 internal OB areas on my course. 3 of them are gullies along side a slight dogleg. I don’t know if it is true but I heard it was done to speed up play. These holes all have about a 10m drop off sloping down to the boundary fence and are not mowed. The 4th is to protect the practice fairway. Pretty basic. Don’t hit it there.

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IIRC, it’s where the club’s driving range amd practice area normally are. Now it’s tents. I…can see why they did it.

Normally, I’m not a fan of OB period. I find it often slows play in a non-tournament setting. Ditto blind shots. These guys are pros, OTOH. They can handle it. I’d prefer a hair more room—maybe have it run along the tops of the mounds that delienate the area—but whatever. It’s fine.

I can also see it for squashing the trend of intentionally playing on the wrong hole to set up a better shot at the green. That one really holds up play, as clever as it otherwise is.

Mainly though, these guys are pros. Who hit it forever, and straight. Shut up and play.


Yes, this is probably also considered. As this tactic was used often in the old days. This is still being practiced in our City Championship on one of the 3 golf courses which will deviate the original intent of designing the golf hole.
There are cry babies in every walks of life. Chambers Bay was criticized and attacked by several players who claimed the greens were not “pristine” for an U.S. Open golf course. While in the next year they played on about the same condition for the “OPEN” and no one complained.
Golfers like to golf in perfect sunny day, not too hot and not too cold, no rain , no wind, with cart girls passing by every 3-4 holes… perfect putting greens…
This attitude reflects on the mental state we’re in.

Of course, If I pay top dollars for a “high-end” or resort facility, I would expect near perfect condition in return. Or at least gives me an excuse to demand more.

In a tournament, the whole field is having the same issue to deal with. May that be the weather or the condition of the golf course.

It is laughable when a “teaching pro” commented that the modified holes for this year’s Open might destroy some professional’s career. Really?
Why didn’t this “teaching pro” listen to himself before he made the public statement.

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Not a fan of internal OBs either but situationally they can make sense, particularly if for safety reasons. I too grew up on a course with an internal OB bordering the right side of a long dogleg right p5, which had a p3 coming back built into the nook of the p 5. Situationally, it made sense
At a course like Holylake, and I’d put a lot of the seaside British courses in the same boat, they were built with a fair degree of idiosyncracities as they encroached on a town or the town encroached on the course, so in this, instance, I chalked it up to that. If a modern architect did it for glitz, I’d frown on it.
Back in the day, the Rules of Golf has some guidelines for local rules and one of them was to discourage internal OBs


Out of my personal experience with the internal OB from several countries, these were the reasons why it exist, a few of of necessity ( limited land space) and a few for safety ( exposed to adjacent fairway) , and economic reason ( prevent golfers from venturing to find their errant tee shot to maintain the pace of play ).
Internal O.B. should not have been a concern because we are not supposed to venture over the line.
The ones who complain are the ones never played a tight design. If anyone have experienced some of the top rated golf courses, they will understand.

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I love it. I wish the PGA Tour would use internal OB more often. For instance, earlier this year (can’t remember which tournament), they fenced off an area left of a fairway. Jon Rahm hit a ball 50 yards left of the fence and proceeded to get TIO relief, moving his ball 50 yards almost to the fairway. I would have deemed that fence OB. IMO, it’s ridiculous giving tour pros relief from places they should be penalized for hitting the golf ball.


Professional golfers are playing for such a large purse working one week is unforeseen from just a decade ago. I remembered when professional golfer earned their first million on their tour years was a huge thing.
Inflation does not factor to equal the jump in price money.
No wonder why all the athletes are rushing into this sport. They want more price money, not to mention the endorsement deals they have. They want pristine condition on the golf course.
They should go play video golf.

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That could happen. Kids now (my 18 yr old included) go online to watch people playing video games just like we watch pros playing golf on TV. I think it’s stupid, but she thinks me watching (and playing) golf is stupid lol. Maybe soon they will watch them playing on a golf simulator or on XBox.


The younger ones could relate to the digital form of communication much better than I could.

I play video games with my kids while they were growing up. It can never replace the real life golf for me.

Very curious to see if the indoor golf could survive. Some are very up beat about the potential of this type of golf, hitting into a screen projecting images of golf holes. Not real golf for me.


Tbf, it is a lot more comfortable to do so inside, and 73-74, than it is outside with 90-95°F and 40-50% humidity.

Still, I don’t like a lot of sims because the tech isn’t that great for many. Trackman is awesome. Provided you have the right stickers and enough space. The tech a lot of these sims are using? Is not so great.

It misreads spin, launch, speed… Fun to go screw around for an hour and drink beer. Nothing you should be changing your swing or equipment on. Just IMHO.

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I don’t like to brave the weather anymore than the next person.
Although, I could say, been there done that. In the early years, we golf through all kinds of weather. We were all healthy and younger without much fear of harming ourselves.
The indoor simulated golf has its merits. The indoor golf would be great when there is snow on the ground, closure of driving range and golf courses. When temperature outside top triple digits ( although we golf in the heat before; frost and rain but no snow because couldn’t find your golf balls ).
I just don’t see the indoor simulated golf being a year round escape for golfers; trying to replace golf on the golf courses.
In some sense, the indoor simulation could replace Sports Bar for the golfers. I won’t know how much improvement could come out of swinging into a screen while drinking beer. But it will be a good alternative when no other options are available.
I know people work in the tech business, this is what I understand from communicating with them for the last 27 years.
No matter what you hear, regardless of the source, the A.I. is not ready to take over the world, just yet. Although it could happen in a flash when breaking through of the last few bottleneck. It could happen in the next 10 years or sooner.
The basic repetitive task could be performed by the A.I. to a certain limit; not refined yet.
What this relate to the game of golf is, no matter how much budget one spends, it’s not close to the real thing. Not even with the augmented reality goggles.
It’ll come very close in the future working with all the human senses involved. The vision, the smell, the touch, the feel of motion… not in my lifetime.

All the sims including Trackman are not perfect. It may explain the numbers better than a golf instructor but in no way the simulator could replace experience and practical function of an experienced and ethical teaching professional. Although I question the way the PGA train and pumping out these young teaching professional like cookie cutter made.

Again, I was not knocking down the indoor golf, it has its use.
Think of why and where this was developed ? Japan and Korea lack the public golf courses, for more than 60% of their “golfers” never got on a real golf course.
This indoor simulator will be perfect for those situation.
If I have an hour lunch break ( 30 minutes plus two break periods ), and the closest driving range is 20 miles away; a close-by indoor simulator could scratch the golf itch for sure.

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Playing off of this quote, what’s really nice about sims (and I’ll throw golf experiences like TopGolf into this bucket too), is the time demand. I can go to the sim-bar (or TopGolf), warm up briefly, hit for an hour, and I’m done. I don’t need to block out 3-4 hours for a round.

I’d love to, but my work and non-golfing wife get in the way. Aside, people at work, as a professional in 2023, will confuse you with other employees they know who golf. I had a performance review recently where I got popped for “taking a call on a driving range,” to which I replied, (thinking, “The fu*k you did, liar,”) “You must have me confused with someone else. But (a la the scene in Whiplash) you think I’m someone who could have done that, and that’s bad enough.”

Not a pleasant time…

Anyway, yes, I far prefer real golf. But maybe courses can start selling 9 holes v 18?

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A lot of us squeeze in a 9-hole when the 18 is not feasible.
Many local 9-hole golf league at the twilight hours in the long day lights of summer for those who could not find time during the weekend.
Yes, I understand the issue with a family commitment. In your case, you can try to get your wife to golf ( beware of the possibility of she would golf more than you do). Or like many of us, get up before dawn and back home around 10 A.M. to do things with family.
I understand in your area the humidity is heavy in the A.M. so that would be a roadblock.

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