Iron forgiveness: a path question

The blade vs everything debate can be found on every golf forum… I was reading about a new iron today and they talked about workability as the opposite of forgiveness… from discussions here and @jon s podcast, I’m not sure that’s necessarily true… here are my basic conclusions on irons from what I’ve read and think I understand.

Lateral spin: fades and draws are going to be determined by your path… irons don’t have enough equipment effect to change spin… an inside to out swing will create draw spin regardless of iron design.

Direction: the ball is going to start wherever the face is pointing at impact. Offset will change the timing of impact and possibly help get people to square (that’s my understanding of offset).

Moment of inertia: this is what separates clubs, as far as I can tell… more forgiving clubs “hold” their energy more and balls hit on different parts of the face have less energy loss into the club…

Is that mostly correct? My new conclusion on irons is I should look for the ones I have the best overall dispersion with, assuming my other numbers are acceptable.

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You’re correct on direction, the ball will start (close to) the direction the face is pointing at impact. Lateral spin is a function of both path and face, specifically the face not being aligned along the path. An inside-out swing can still produce slice spin, if the face is open to the path. A generalization, the ball starts on the face alignment, and curves away from the path. As far as I know, both of these are independent of iron design and construction.

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I think you’ve got it.

In 2015-16 (an era I refer to as “The Dark Times”), I developed the sh*nks. I never knew when it was coming, but at least once a round, it would happen. I was playing Mizuno MP-53s at the time, which were amazing clubs, but had very little going on in the forgiveness (i.e. MOI) dept. So I couldn’t just put the ball on the toe and play through it. Towards the end of 2016 I happened into some extra money, so, out of desperation, I went and bought a set of Callaway Steelhead XR irons, just to allow me to put the ball on the toe. When I would hit it out there with the Steelheads vs the Mizunos, I’d get more distance from the steelheads, and less of a big draw. But…overall the steelheads didn’t drastically change my ball flight, just made it way easier for me to play around my nemesis shot at the time.

Fast forward to 2020 and I’ve gotten some swing help and no longer struggle with that issue. I still find that I can play with the Steelheads and be successful, but will probably look for something with less offset in my next set, as I believe the offset, coupled with a “hot face” does lead to a bigger dispersion than I would have with something a little more players-looking.

That was a really long story to tell you, but basically I agree with you. Find a set of irons that you hit the with the dispersion you like while still having acceptable distance to you.

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Interested in hearing the responses to this.

I just was fit and purchased T100’s. While this is a “players” iron, the feedback was that my launch, spin and ball speed were clearly better with the T100’s and the TM P770

I asked the guy if I was “giving up” forgiveness, and his response was that mishits on almost all the clubs I tested (5 swings with maybe 10 to 12 clubs) were all about 10 yards. The most forgiving clubs that I hit with him were launching high ballon shots and he felt that launch and spin trumped “forgiveness” for my game as a 5-7 handicapper (I am told I hit the ball better than my handicap… plagued by OB double bogeys currently)

Anyways, interested to hear more about forgiveness vs. launch and spin and turf interaction

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You’ve come to the right place to rid yourself of Double Bogeys.

I think that is all more or less correct. Offset and weighting of SGI irons could impact workability, but path and face are always going to win out. I think blades these days are all about the look, subjective “feel”, and mental confidence looking down at the ball. Really, only the pros and highest level amateurs should be playing them IMO (and really only in the short irons) as they don’t need as much forgiveness on the off-center strikes and the “hot faces” can make distance control a bit more difficult.

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Yeah, I’m less into arguing blades versus gi irons and more figuring out what the actual differences are… the joke about workability in the review I read today made me think about it more.

I think @papageorgio is on the right path with finding the club that had “forgiveness “ but had the best launch and spin… my earlier comment was a little broad…

My conclusions are: fine the irons that hit the launch and spin parameters you need, and then find the ones that have the least dispersion.

And

I don’t see how blades could improve dispersion for the majority of golfers, but I’m sure it does for some.

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When I think of forgiveness in an iron, I’m concerned about how far the ball goes and how far off line it goes when hit an inch off center. Clearly, a club that has a huge sweet pot will not be easy to work the ball with since it is designed to cause the ball to go back to center.

Maybe…it is all in relation to the face angle at impact to your path…you can swing inside to out but if the face is open it will go right…

If you swing left with the face open at impact to the path it will go right
If you swing right with the face closed at impact to the path it will go left

So here’s what I know about blades. They don’t necessarily assist in workability. What they do is provide more feedback. A good player (read: great player) is going to be able to FEEL more of how they are striking the ball with a blade. It’s for those guys who can dial in millimeters to get to the center of the club face.
This isn’t necessarily a pros versus everyone else thing…but it kinda is because they are the guys who have put in the thousands and thousands of hours and have developed the feel required to know how even the slightest of mishits feels given the feedback from a blade or a muscle back.

Game improvement irons (cavity backs) have huge club heads compared to blades giving them a much wider “sweet spot” helping mishits be better than they would be on a blade.

The pros don’t need that forgiveness. Guys like us do.

I prefer a muscle back or “player’s” iron. They give me the combo I like in workability, feedback, and forgiveness.

I think for most amateurs the biggest thing to pay attention to when getting fit is dispersion, launch angle, and attack angle. Whichever club gives you the best results - play that.

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I play with Lynx tour blades. Very thin both in terms of the sole and the top edge, no offset and a narrower face. I play off 17 and I can tell whether I have mishit them by the feel. You don’t have to be a great player to feel mishits or to feel the sweet spot. Love my clubs and am confident with them. https://lynxgolf.co.uk/products/tour-irons

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and might make a longer post on the concept… but I’m starting to think that the only thing I should look for in new irons (after turf interaction and good launch numbers) is dispersion.

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Well, based on the underlying premise that your irons are supposed to be used to hit greens, and other targets, that sounds like a pretty good idea to me!

But also presuming, of course, you still get the distance, feel and ball flight you’re looking for.

I switched irons this year to something a little more GI vs what I’d been playing, and … in combo with a series of on-going lessons … my ball striking and dispersion have improved :+1:

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Yeah, it’s interesting… As I’ve been thinking about golf and chatting here, I’m trying to question my base assumptions and make sure I’m working towards things that actually help my game… I’m perfectly content with my old irons (Adams CMBs) but haven’t actually done any testing with them to make sure they perform well versus different irons…

I’m going to spend some time on a launch monitor and better learn my dispersion and then possibly re-adjust my bag setup… I also have an odd man out Sub70 5 iron, so it will be fun to test that against my CMB 6 iron.

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