I'm not progressing

General Discussion
#21

This too. Adam Young had a great article on how tough golf was, expressed numerically. How much difference an inch here, a degree there, all turns a great flushed shot into barely moving garbage. He then went on to point out all of the different joints and muscles that have to work—in unison!—to ensure a good result. The takeaway was: you can’t possibly keep track of all of this stuff consciously. But your brain can, if you just leave it alone.

Driving a car is a great example. (And one I think Adam actually used.) If you were to try and consciously keep track of all of the things you have to do to drive a car down a city street, in traffic, you’d swerve all over the road, just like a very new driver. Gas pedal, steering wheel, what gear am I in, do I need to shift, here comes the clutch pedal, etc… Then there’s traffic, all of it constantly accelerating and decelerating in relation to you. And it has to be done fast. Somehow, we keep up. May even do a bunch of other tasks at the same time, when we get comfortable with the activity.

Golf has to be the same way.

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#22

I lived with a golf pro and was coached to a 12hcp when I was 17/18. Then I stopped playing and restarted 3 years ago when I was 44. My first round back was 151 strokes. It took many months of playing up to 6x a week and practicing to get down to a 32 hcp. Then with a thought of starting the downswing turning the hips not swaying got me down to a hcp of 23 in 2 weeks. There might be just one thing you change to flip the switch and start playing better golf. That change helped me hit longer drives which put more greens in reach, more pars etc. Don’t give up hope.

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#23

This is a great thread. I was having this exact same thought yesterday: Am I actually progressing?

I’ve been playing for 27 years, now down to a 3, which is down from 6 a couple years ago. I practice daily on a home sim and get lessons regularly. I am obsessed and objectively getting better at this game over a very long arc of time.

But in the short term - like right now - my game is a hot mess. I’m committed to a (theoretically minor) swing change, that had been going well, but is wreaking havoc on my irons shots right now. I had my worst practice session in ages yesterday, and I managed to fire off my worst two rounds in over three years over the past week.

It’s a horrifically stupid and abusive game. To quote Molly Griswold, “This is without a doubt the stupidest, silliest, most idiotic grotesquery masquerading as a game that has ever been invented.”

And to quote Roy Tin Cup McEvoy, “Yes ma’am, that’s why I love it.”

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#24

Wishing you good fortune with the swing work. I completely changed my swing starting in February, I have gained about 20-22% distance from where I was. It’s very difficult. I actually have almost 2 complete different moves, one with the woods and 1 with the irons. It’s close but I notice the difference. I have said this 1000x if only 10x. I was taught a very long time ago. Going from a 20 to about a 7 is pretty EZ with a decent amount of work. After that shaving a stroke is very hard. I was also taught that the difference between a very low hdcp player and a pro is another galaxy. Alot of people disagree, and that’s ok. I mean any of the Ryder 24 or the vice caps, if they played to a -4, they’d want to give up and take up darts at the bar and drink themselves to death. Us ams are just not that good comparing our games. Chasing a number is fun. Chasing improvement is very hard, because as a 3 you’re only talking a titch more consistency probably with a putter or wedge. I truly wish you the same good fortune I had in gaining 40-50yds with my driver.

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#25

That’s awesome re: the driver gains. I am chasing. Chasing what? I don’t know, I just know I want to get better. Strong focus on ball striking right now (driving, iron play) which I figure is the path to long term sustainable gains in handicap. I know I could get some gains with wedge/putter, but I think about that as variance around a ball-striking mean, if that makes sense.

Your comment about the different galaxies reminded me Tom Coyne’s book Paper Tiger. He talks about the ladder of golf. I love his first paragraph, which I’ve just opened up here and copied:

Consider the golf-greatness pyramid’s base, a wide mass of good players, great players, best ball strikers you have ever witnessed firsthand, the only ace you have ever been accidentally, terrifyingly, matched up with – we’ll call him or her The Best Player You Know… A two-, three-handicap – maybe even a scratch player. If you watched them hit balls, you would weep inside.

And here’s the news about The Best Players You Know: They’re shit. Scratch is shit. The Best Players You Know simply cannot play. They are the mere masses, golf’s faceless proletariat, utterly forgettable. They are little more than the wide sprawling base of wannabes on which the pyramid is planted.

And he goes on from there :slight_smile:

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#26

David. I have been ripped on here for saying that. I have had the great fortune of playing with several major champions. I do mean playing rounds of golf with them. Unless you actually play golf with them, you don’t understand. Contrary to Adam Young. They are that good. Really good. One of the boys I played with threw a 58 on the board. That’s how good they are just messing around no pressure on your 6200 yd avg track and that was in 1984. My take on real improvement starts with the putter and moving on out. Develop consistency with those scoring clubs, then move to mid and long irons and finally to woods and tee balls. The swing change I actually made was major/minor. I needed to increase my launch angle. I went from like 9-10 degrees to 13-14 degrees. But there was alot involved only working on that for 6 months and 50-100 balls a day. The biggest thing you should chase is fun with your partners, a little walking exercise. Scoring is a result of managing your misses somewhere between 75 to 90 times. Technically, if you hole everything out you only have 18 makes. LOL Here is just a tour caddy, just fooling around.https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jhared-hack-shoots-57-mini-tour-caddie

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#27

I won’t re-litigate the sources of golf improvement here… well-trodden ground around here :innocent:

The rest of Coyne’s ladder is amusing:

  • The Best Players You Know
  • Club Pros
  • Stud Amateurs
  • Attached Club Pro (like a club pro without the responsibility, there so members can hang with them)
  • Mini-Tour Philanthropists (because they donate their entry fee)
  • Mini-Tour Grinder
  • Nationwide Web.com Korn Ferry Earners
  • Six Figure Survivors (the first of the PGA Tour players)
  • The Players
  • The Superstars

He goes on to say:

They should amend those ads on TV - These guys are good. How good? You’ve got no f-ing idea

As impenetrable and unscalable as the pyramid might seem, the reality is that the difference between the apex and the bottom masses is about six, maybe seven, golf shots a round. As vast as the talent gulf may seem, a scorecard doesn’t know anything about the talent pyramid.

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#28

I think it’s worth taking a moment to explore this space… I turned 40 today… I’m well past my physical prime. Distance is directly tied to scoring, and I’ve been keeping the same distance, if not improving…

That’s progress against the treadmill of time.

Other areas are more in doubt… my focus is still abysmal and there are areas of golf I can improve on if I can figure out how to practice them… they all
Take time and energy…

I think there is something to be said for treading water in golf, especially with limited time!

That said, I think we can always improve. Pick something tangible and work on it… I’ve seen improvement in my putting, even if it’s only I don’t hate putting anymore.

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#29

My story is basically at 22 I took up the game, I sucked. I wanted to get good, I was hooked. Because of a work schedule to make money which was the 6p to 3a shift I volunteered at an African American owned golf club in exchange for lessons after my first 7 that I paid for or so and unlimited privileges. Inside of a about 15 months, I went from a 24hdcp to about a 2. I was like damn I could go pro. Uhhhh NO! I only know 1 guy who did that and that’s Larry Nelson. I was good, I was really good, I made a living hustling, I was making like $400 a week, hustling scat games, another note a week caddying at PVGC. But playing with some of the men I got to play with. No, when they wanted to play especially over the course of 4 or 5 days…it’s a whole different level, you wanna play with those guys, you better get good, you better drop wedges on a dime. I found out I could only drop them on a quarter. Still can, but at my age that’s only good enough to get you at a single digit. So I’m happy with that, I have fun, I play in senior events, and at once a week playing on a course my short game, 40yds on in, not good enough and I don’t have the time to invest yet. Maybe next year…this year was improve launch angle consistently. Same general swing, just slightly different release. Like I said. Biggest thing is have fun

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#30

Happy (belated) Birthday, Will!! :partying_face:

Thanks for reminding me that 40 is well past our physical prime :sob:

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#31

First off happy birthday, youngster!

Secondly, I think you are spot on in that progress is relative. If you enjoying playing more, than that is probably the most important progress you can make. Ever.

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#32

Thanks! Having fun is definitely the most important part…

I’ve just come to believe that progress is more than lowering your handicap… you have to find the small wins in golf and eventually they will add up to big wins.

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#33

Belated Happy Birthday!

I would love to go back to 40…well actually I had a super stressful job then so not that part of it, but I wouldn’t mind turning back the clock 15 years otherwise.

I actually did get down to about a 12 back then with more practice and play and felt like I could get to single digits, but I focused on other things (work; family) and the index kept climbing until I hit a 20 last Fall. Back down to 14 this year. Not much more time practicing, but better practice. Wish our season was longer here, but I’m working on a plan for Winter and steps to keep dropping.

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#34

Happy Birthday !!! Your gainin on me!

#35

Happy birthday Will :muscle:t2:

I’ve more than a decade on you and waaay past my prime but through club fitting, continual learning and focused practice I can sometimes hit 300yd drives. Average is 250 and gaining so you’ve a good way to go yet youngster.

Like @Kevomanc I’d love to be 40 again. And like @Kevomanc I also had a stressful job then. I will not go back to that for any amount of money. Life is too short to trade in your mental health for cash.

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#36

@BlackForestGuy - there have been some really good comments posted in here, and I trust you’ve read carefully through all of them … a lot of useful wisdom has been shared!

I’d recommend … if you have not yet … spending time reading through some of the articles on the Practical Golf website. The knowledge and insights in them will do a lot for your game!

Start with Expectations Management.

That said, as a fellow golf enthusiast who is also working hard to get “better” (whatever that means) I would strongly suggest…
#1. Patience.
2. Practice only what you were shown in your Lessons.
… And,
3. Learn the game “backwards” (as someone else mentioned above) - because…

…becoming a really good putter takes pressure off your approach shots … you can hit anywhere onto the green; become really good with your wedges because you will miss greens … so gain confidence that you can get the ball up onto the green when you do miss trying to pull off the perfect approach; become really good with your irons and “club up” on approach shots; learn to hit all of your clubs from all sorts of uneven lies and types of rough; always pick a specific target for every shot; always be careful with your setup at address and aim & alignment; etc etc etc etc.

Driving it far off the tee is great, but driving the ball into a good spot in the fairway is much better.

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#37

Only change to the list … I heard one time from a 3 handicapper. He asked his pro for a putting lesson and he took him to the short game area. Said if he could get the ball closer to the hole from around the green, he would take fewer putts and shoot lower scores.

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#38

Yes!! But… that’s a 3 hcp! IMHO the rest of us regular mid-/hi- cappers would do well to first get the ball almost anywhere onto the green, from anywhere / any lie around the green … then as the basic skills develop sharpen up your shot making skills.

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#39

One thing that most golfers, regardless of their mid-/hi-cap, can do and do as effectively as a scratch golfer, is learn to hit a wedge properly. In fact, if you’re having problems swinging a wedge, there’s a good chance that

  1. you haven’t been instructed in its use properly or at all
  2. you have something in your fundamentals that if you managed to fix with a wedge, would seep back into your regular (fairway/tee) swing and make you a better golfer

You don’t need strength to swing a 60 degree wedge. But you do need

  • instruction
  • practice
  • confidence

My contention here is that if you can swing a wedge, you can swing it well outside of your regular game, and end up closer to the hole every time. You may even find yourself holing out more than once in a season. So what I’m saying is that a “regular golfer” can end up well closer to those guys on TV from 40 yards on in. My own approach to the game is to treat putting and wedgework as essentially the same set of skills. I’ve stopped practicing one without the other. And it’s made a bigger difference in my abilities as a golfer than anything I have managed to do in other aspects of my game. An added benefit is that my sand game got much better too, well beyond the amount of practice that I put in.

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#40

I’m guessing the pro really knows his student’s game, which is why the pro gave that specific advice. PGA Scrambling stats as a whole last year show that the Tour average was a hair under 58% Cantlay led everyone with a little over 2/3. If this student has a much lower scramble percentage, like the 5-10 percent I vaguely recall reading is true for the average golfer, then yes, that’s a lot of strokes being left out there. Not to mention that scrambling is often not a matter of the difference between par and bogey, but if you really botch it, it can be the difference between par and “other.”

For most -3s though, I’m not thrilled with the logic behind it. As I see it, to be a 3 handicap, a player is already hitting a ton of greens in regulation. Likely over 50 percent. (Comparing again with the Tour GIR, average is a hair under 2/3 and Cameron Percy leads with nearly 73%) Unless they’re much worse than expected around the greens, and are constantly taking three or more to get down, this player’s issue likely isn’t chipping/pitching, for the 6-9 greens they miss.

It’s that most of their first putts are outside of their reasonable-make range. The solutions to that—especially if the guy is complaining about bad putting—is to either improve putting fundamentals (establishing the line and speed, address, stroke) such that the reasonable-make distance increases, or honing their approaches so that they can be closer to the hole.

Our host had a chart in his “Breaking 90” piece that showed putting distances and make percentages for Tour guys, scratch players, and 18 handicaps. The difference between Tour and 18HDCP for making 2/3 of their first putts, was going from 6 feet out to 4 feet out. Two feet. That’s it.

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