To keep the field honest, because we are a relatively easy track and technically the tee boxes are moved all around anyways. I can tell you this with 100% certainty, if I played the par 3s with a SW, GW, PW my GIR would go up by at least 3 per round, it’s not fun, nor fair for me to smoke my playing partners every Saturday, They don’t get weight on any of the par 3’s… and we play snakes they have to hit 7 and 6 irons from like 140 and I hit 9irons…am I starting to make sense to you? He has to have something to go by when having A,B,C,D players. I’m actually a swing player, he has used me as a high A or a low B depending on how he makes team groupings because there aren’t alot of A players mostly B & C. The only available tool we have is the GHIN. Like I said it doesn’t matter…you know it doesn’t matter. Tee boxes can be and are moved up and down all the time. AND if I played in a tourney outta the association I would tell them to adjust me lower the 1.5 shots.
One other thing for you all to think about. I’m a relatively short hitter now by todays standards (245-260 now) but I can keep the ball between the uprights. There is a course we play…if I played the whites there is a strong possibility I could land my tee shots in FW bunkers…very strong! When I play from the blue tees there is no way those bunkers come into play. I’m consistently 5-15 yds short…so my approach is not with a 7, 8 or 9 iron out of a bunker, now it’s from a decent lie with a 6 or 7 iron. Which tee is more of an advantage? If you think I’m gaining a shot playing out of FW bunkers because I played from whites or blues, (and when we play it, I do play from the whites, the 70 year olds would have to play from the golds to put those bunkers in play but they don’t) think again. It’s all relative in an imperfect system.
The Handicap System is far from perfect, agreed. But it works moderately well when each individual follows the rules. It becomes much less perfect when each individual feels entitled to adapt the rules to fit his personal whims. You clearly feel that you are so entitled. None of the rest of the BS really matters.
OK so what would you suggest? If I post from the tips my handicap will stay the same…8.7, it’s not going to move…maybe a quarter point. So I’d be accused of bagging 2.5 shots in every event? Or take the 20% adjustment the other way because I’m hitting scoring clubs in? This is what was suggested by the pro. You guys think I’m talking about augusta here. The course rating 118 and 116 respectively…It doesn’t matter maybe 1 shot.
You keep saying the rules…jesus lord man…tee boxes are not always from the tips. and we/I don’t play from the tips unless it’s a house tourney and even then they are adjusted. i guess i could see your point if I was on the friggin tour…it’s people like you that make this game not fun! they get moved every saturday as do pin placements.
Doesn’t the handicap system adjust for the tees? We mainly play the Whites, but certain tournaments are from the Blues and we all get adjusted accordingly. I know for certain tournaments B players get a % of their handicap adjusted, but that’s for that format and your actual score may still be entered.
To quote Ron Burgundy:
“Boy, that escalated quickly.”
This is not what I was hoping to get out of this thread. I’ll be ejecting now.
Some courses (like Prairie Dunes) have ratings for split tees, but most don’t. I definitely see the benefit of split tees, occasionally going forward or back for a shot. I’m guessing the course rating between 5900-6200 isn’t much. If the people you play against play the same split tees and post white, why should it matter? Or just play gross instead of net and it doesn’t matter.
My apologies, I just have a hard time reading someone say “I play these tees because I want to, but I post my scores based on some other tees”. The initial question was interesting, and I tried to provide my own experiences, then I got the whole thing sidetracked.
It has made for an interesting work day, refreshing the forum for a break periodically and watching the chaos spiral.
I was living version of one of those “guy eating popcorn” memes
We get adjusted because of how we play and it’s I lose 1.7 off of 8.7. Again, 1 more time. We do not play from the tips at 6200yds. (the course is rarely set to play from the tips at 6200yds) The whites are at 5900 yds. We basically play the course at 6000-6100 yds every weekend. We like to mix up the tees, especially the Par 5s and the Par3’s and a couple of the par 4’s…Again to clue everyone in; at that distance the difference is from the exact tees in general is 11yds or 15yds per hole… For me that’s not even a 1/2 a club…I don’t like getting insulted when someone gets their hair up over rules and just freak out and start calling you a cheat and then when you tell them the y’s and therefore’s don’t even apologize to me!..That riles me up. You don’t just call people cheats…that’s an insult and you shouldn’t get away with that! Sorry
In response to the OP’s question my home club actually causes my index to be higher. It’s not long, but is tree lined with small greens. It is really a tough track to score on. IMO it is rated 2 strokes lower than it should be. However with the metrics the course raters use it doesn’t justify it. There is only 1 penalty area other than the boundaries of the course. The other course that I was playing some is much longer with wide fairways and big greens and more penalty areas. but is a much easier course to score on. My best guess is I would be in the +2 range at this course where I struggle to keep it around 0 at my home course.
Didn’t you have a thread earlier this summer when you explained the tournament handicaps your club uses to prevent certain guys from cheating? You said there were guys who would post 85s but then shoot 78s in the tournaments so the pro had to come up with a lower tournament handicap for these guys? Are you now saying you are one of those guys?
Do me a small favor, not what I am saying, not what I am doing, not what our pro is doing, if u don’t understand, stop trying to insult me and crawl back under your rock. If you are that obtuse, just say so, I don’t seem to understand. Do you have fun insulting people, I’ll let you know when they let me tee it up in the Shriners and u can get your rocks off and turn me into the PGA…how’s that? Is that ok for ya? Does that make u happy? And yes he does do that. To figure ABCD players for teams in blind draws he still uses GHIN. Not for individual tournaments. Because I post from whites, because I play 12 holes from the whites and 6 from the blues. I get the wonderful privilege of having 20% subtracted from my handicap in individual championships and/or match play because I’m honest. It’s the team events that some people were jacking up handicaps. Let me ask you something Mr scratch golfer … You answer honestly. Your course has tee boxes, I know it does. If you teed off from the front of the blue tee box every hole, as opposed to moving 10yds back to the back of the tee box. Would that affect your game? Would it? Answer honestly? Is that difference gonna make you mini tour ready? What is wrong with you people?:You really just sit back and go, I know I can mess this guy so I just insult someone? Is that what you’re about…Brooksie? Is the 100yd difference in our tee boxes over 18 holes aggregate affecting your game? Do you really give that much of a rats behind what I do? Tell me what is your problem. Do you wager on the course, how about this you play from 205 and I’ll play from 140 with a 9 iron in my hands…I’ll empty your pockets. Now see y I play the par 3s from the back?
I worked at the Inn, and while I’ve gotten to play the PBC courses a few times, I didn’t work on the golf courses. Yeah, I imagine they change the teeing grounds quite a bit.
I don’t play in tournaments (yet, though it sounds like fun), and I’d keep a handicap only for my own edification. Not because I actually thought it realistically levelled competition between two players. Again, sandbagging, IME, is a thing more often than not. I still laugh at how ballsy Kerry Packer had to be to win the Amateur side of the Pro-Am that year. Maybe Fawcett can demonstrate statistically how LOL unlikely it’d have to be for a player to play that far below his handicap for four straight rounds?
But perhaps YMMV…
I’m just trying to explain why others might think that what you’re doing is contrary to the spirit of the handicap system. Even if your way, frankly, sounds more fun.
MJ, I think you need to take a beat and calm down a little bit. I don’t think anyone is coming for your ghin number…
That said… you could easily record your scores from the back tees and pick the front tees on occasion… it would artificially lower your handicap! What you are doing now artificially raises your handicap.
You want a handicap so you can play in tournaments… but you don’t want to play from the tees set up to establish a handicap… this doesn’t mean the handicap system is broken, it just doesn’t work the way you want it to. It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s disingenuous to criticize a system you actively subvert.
Thank you…look actually I’m in my 60s now 2 of my partners hit 70 this year. They play from whites and gold’s now. We all used to be fairly even…I was always a bit longer off the tee, like 210ish and way longer and accurate with irons than they are. We play $2 automatics, it can get expensive especially with $5 junk. They are 15s I’m an 8.7. I give them both 5 a side. The whites on 2 of the par 3s are 145 and 115 respectively. They are hitting 7w and 8iron respectively into the holes. So If I hit from the whites I would be 9i and GW on each hole, so I move back…from 205 I hit 7w, from 165 I hit 7 or 8 iron. See why? They get 0 weight on any par 3 nor on the par 5s. I increased driver distance this year 40-50 yds. They didn’t. Even if they move up I blow the ball by them. Because we have some strange holes that are all layup holes. It doesn’t matter if I tee off with a 7 iron or 5 iron…if I tee off like they have to with a 3 or 5w I’m OB. I’m still pretty good with those really short irons…I’ll be in you pocket all day. I’m GIR 85% of the time with those clubs off a tee box. Not so much with a 7w from 205-215. It evens things out. $2 automatics plus junk can be $50 a round ez… we keep it friendly so no one usually loses or wins more than $10-15 and you get to buy lunch…the other holes they get weight on the holes they get weight, we all tee off even…basically they get 2 shots to blow it by me before we start counting…make any sense now?
I’m not criticizing it! AND how would you feel if someone called you a cheat. And continued to call you a cheat. Maybe just maybe read above and maybe you can understand… especially if you wager on the course…but that’s illegal and against the rules too and I get whacked 20% in some events so I’m not artificially inflating anything because I have to play from the tips as an individual as a 6. Again, on our course, moving up 10 yds from the tip to the white tee ain’t moving the needle…sorry it just isn’t…moving to the red tee…hmmm that might affect me… but moving from 345 blue to 337 white…I blast one 250…I’m SW in…period! My partners are driver, then 5w or 7w in after they hit 175 or 180 off the tee and usually chipping up but their chip up starts them out at is basically their second shot. I have to get my SW or GW on the green. That’s called fairness in wagering! BTW you all do understand automatics and junk right?
Here’s the thing… you’ve stated, multiple times, that you are recording a handicap from tees you aren’t playing and then using that handicap in competition.
Your club pro is shaving your handicap by 20%
Call it what you want, but you aren’t keeping a handicap following the rules of golf.