We get adjusted because of how we play and it’s I lose 1.7 off of 8.7. Again, 1 more time. We do not play from the tips at 6200yds. (the course is rarely set to play from the tips at 6200yds) The whites are at 5900 yds. We basically play the course at 6000-6100 yds every weekend. We like to mix up the tees, especially the Par 5s and the Par3’s and a couple of the par 4’s…Again to clue everyone in; at that distance the difference is from the exact tees in general is 11yds or 15yds per hole… For me that’s not even a 1/2 a club…I don’t like getting insulted when someone gets their hair up over rules and just freak out and start calling you a cheat and then when you tell them the y’s and therefore’s don’t even apologize to me!..That riles me up. You don’t just call people cheats…that’s an insult and you shouldn’t get away with that! Sorry
In response to the OP’s question my home club actually causes my index to be higher. It’s not long, but is tree lined with small greens. It is really a tough track to score on. IMO it is rated 2 strokes lower than it should be. However with the metrics the course raters use it doesn’t justify it. There is only 1 penalty area other than the boundaries of the course. The other course that I was playing some is much longer with wide fairways and big greens and more penalty areas. but is a much easier course to score on. My best guess is I would be in the +2 range at this course where I struggle to keep it around 0 at my home course.
Didn’t you have a thread earlier this summer when you explained the tournament handicaps your club uses to prevent certain guys from cheating? You said there were guys who would post 85s but then shoot 78s in the tournaments so the pro had to come up with a lower tournament handicap for these guys? Are you now saying you are one of those guys?
Do me a small favor, not what I am saying, not what I am doing, not what our pro is doing, if u don’t understand, stop trying to insult me and crawl back under your rock. If you are that obtuse, just say so, I don’t seem to understand. Do you have fun insulting people, I’ll let you know when they let me tee it up in the Shriners and u can get your rocks off and turn me into the PGA…how’s that? Is that ok for ya? Does that make u happy? And yes he does do that. To figure ABCD players for teams in blind draws he still uses GHIN. Not for individual tournaments. Because I post from whites, because I play 12 holes from the whites and 6 from the blues. I get the wonderful privilege of having 20% subtracted from my handicap in individual championships and/or match play because I’m honest. It’s the team events that some people were jacking up handicaps. Let me ask you something Mr scratch golfer … You answer honestly. Your course has tee boxes, I know it does. If you teed off from the front of the blue tee box every hole, as opposed to moving 10yds back to the back of the tee box. Would that affect your game? Would it? Answer honestly? Is that difference gonna make you mini tour ready? What is wrong with you people?:You really just sit back and go, I know I can mess this guy so I just insult someone? Is that what you’re about…Brooksie? Is the 100yd difference in our tee boxes over 18 holes aggregate affecting your game? Do you really give that much of a rats behind what I do? Tell me what is your problem. Do you wager on the course, how about this you play from 205 and I’ll play from 140 with a 9 iron in my hands…I’ll empty your pockets. Now see y I play the par 3s from the back?
I worked at the Inn, and while I’ve gotten to play the PBC courses a few times, I didn’t work on the golf courses. Yeah, I imagine they change the teeing grounds quite a bit.
I don’t play in tournaments (yet, though it sounds like fun), and I’d keep a handicap only for my own edification. Not because I actually thought it realistically levelled competition between two players. Again, sandbagging, IME, is a thing more often than not. I still laugh at how ballsy Kerry Packer had to be to win the Amateur side of the Pro-Am that year. Maybe Fawcett can demonstrate statistically how LOL unlikely it’d have to be for a player to play that far below his handicap for four straight rounds?
But perhaps YMMV…
I’m just trying to explain why others might think that what you’re doing is contrary to the spirit of the handicap system. Even if your way, frankly, sounds more fun.
MJ, I think you need to take a beat and calm down a little bit. I don’t think anyone is coming for your ghin number…
That said… you could easily record your scores from the back tees and pick the front tees on occasion… it would artificially lower your handicap! What you are doing now artificially raises your handicap.
You want a handicap so you can play in tournaments… but you don’t want to play from the tees set up to establish a handicap… this doesn’t mean the handicap system is broken, it just doesn’t work the way you want it to. It doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s disingenuous to criticize a system you actively subvert.
Thank you…look actually I’m in my 60s now 2 of my partners hit 70 this year. They play from whites and gold’s now. We all used to be fairly even…I was always a bit longer off the tee, like 210ish and way longer and accurate with irons than they are. We play $2 automatics, it can get expensive especially with $5 junk. They are 15s I’m an 8.7. I give them both 5 a side. The whites on 2 of the par 3s are 145 and 115 respectively. They are hitting 7w and 8iron respectively into the holes. So If I hit from the whites I would be 9i and GW on each hole, so I move back…from 205 I hit 7w, from 165 I hit 7 or 8 iron. See why? They get 0 weight on any par 3 nor on the par 5s. I increased driver distance this year 40-50 yds. They didn’t. Even if they move up I blow the ball by them. Because we have some strange holes that are all layup holes. It doesn’t matter if I tee off with a 7 iron or 5 iron…if I tee off like they have to with a 3 or 5w I’m OB. I’m still pretty good with those really short irons…I’ll be in you pocket all day. I’m GIR 85% of the time with those clubs off a tee box. Not so much with a 7w from 205-215. It evens things out. $2 automatics plus junk can be $50 a round ez… we keep it friendly so no one usually loses or wins more than $10-15 and you get to buy lunch…the other holes they get weight on the holes they get weight, we all tee off even…basically they get 2 shots to blow it by me before we start counting…make any sense now?
I’m not criticizing it! AND how would you feel if someone called you a cheat. And continued to call you a cheat. Maybe just maybe read above and maybe you can understand… especially if you wager on the course…but that’s illegal and against the rules too and I get whacked 20% in some events so I’m not artificially inflating anything because I have to play from the tips as an individual as a 6. Again, on our course, moving up 10 yds from the tip to the white tee ain’t moving the needle…sorry it just isn’t…moving to the red tee…hmmm that might affect me… but moving from 345 blue to 337 white…I blast one 250…I’m SW in…period! My partners are driver, then 5w or 7w in after they hit 175 or 180 off the tee and usually chipping up but their chip up starts them out at is basically their second shot. I have to get my SW or GW on the green. That’s called fairness in wagering! BTW you all do understand automatics and junk right?
Here’s the thing… you’ve stated, multiple times, that you are recording a handicap from tees you aren’t playing and then using that handicap in competition.
Your club pro is shaving your handicap by 20%
Call it what you want, but you aren’t keeping a handicap following the rules of golf.
Everytime we wager on the course, that’s technically conduct unbecoming of an amateur too…Y…what is considered excessive? And you didn’t answer the question! I’m playing the course longer than the whites, but shorter than the tips. Closer to white than blue. I have to post something. Again, do you wager when you play? Probably to the tune of $50-60 with your playing partners. Using an auto format. Wanna play me basically even up for 6 holes you literally cannot compete against me. Basically u against, pick a pro. Wanna do that? I only play the one day a week? Do you, would you wager against someone that you 95% of the time have no chance to win a wager. You wanna call me a cheat too? How about we play a round of golf and all I had to do was putt from 20 ft or less every hole? And you gotta play from the Red Tees, I’ll cut u a break!
Like those odds? I hope you have deep pockets. Round of golf $70, Loss of wagers $100…Look on your face… PRICELESS! Every week too! For us, no wagers, no golf, it just isn’t fun. Ask Phil if he wagers? Ask Michael Jordan if he wagers…I’m posting a handicap at basically the white tees stretched 120 yds over 18 holes. I don’t get it! is wagering in the rules of golf? I guess because we wager on the course, I don’t know, 50 a man, we’re all breaking the rules. In my youth I made $300-400 a week hustling on the course. I won a $5000 wager once and got to play PVGC for the first time! Well worth it! Purists…and that’s ok, but you certainly don’t test your game! Wanna test your game? Play a simple $100 Nassau with no presses with only $50 in your pocket! Now there’s a test…been there, done that. Does your “home course” have an annual “Calcutta”…That’s illegal too if you participate… I forgot about that…the bidding alone is a drunkfest! One of the best things I learned when I was taught to play golf was how to get $$$ back after I dropped a deuce on the course playing gin rummy in the locker room. You guys are really missing the experience! So sad!
To the OP, I do apologize for really getting off track! I still say good for you, breaking par on any track is something to be proud of and know this if you hit it str8, you will score the same on any track if you putt well, probably up to a certain distance
My distance limit now is now about 6400-6500 yds, then I’m toast
Anyone breaking your stones that says you are not a 1 player, say ok I’m a 5 and take their money too…all the way to the bank!
To all you naysayers out there! Read it and weep! I just found out I’m actually hurting myself by taking a 20% whack in tourneys. From how I / we do it I should only be losing .48 of a shot! Can a golfer play a combo set of Tees? Any apologies now? Wanna keep calling me a cheat? THE USGA ENCOURAGES THIS!!! Yea,I want a cookie!
- If a player decides to play a combo set of tees while they are golfing and it is not in the GHIN system, there is a way to post a score that is acceptable. The USGA Handicap System not only allows, but encourages this.
https://help.18birdies.com/article/550-what-tees-should-i-play
The problem is that you are not posting a score that is acceptable and your pro seems to think he needs to make a very significant adjustment to make your handicap fair when competing in a club event.
It’s a problem to you! I’ve been ripping myself off! Now I know the USGA encourages this! AND I can post correctly which I did not know until I asked a friend who is a GHIN expert! So apologize! I guess none of us were aware! AND I went online and adjusted my scoring and I went from a 9.1 to an 8.6! Yea that makes a huge difference! (NOT!) You insinuated I was cheating! APOLOGIZE!
In spite of what 18birdies says, the USGA doesn’t exactly encourage this. The USGA does allow for “temporary” changes, and provides a table to help a club revise its Slope and Course Ratings based on yardage differences. I referenced this in Post #14, way back there. But nowhere does the USGA encourage players to essentially make up their own set of tees. If you really want to do things right, define the set of tees you want to play (i.e. back tees on 1 5 and 7, middle on the rest), ask your pro to get a proper CR and Slope for that set. All course rating data are maintained for each hole and each tee by your state or regional association, so its a pretty simple matter for them to calculate a “hybrid tee” rating.
CAN’T APOLOGIZE CAN YOU! “the USGA doesn’t exactly encourage this” what the heck does that mean not exactly? They either do or they don’t! My friend says knock yourself out…here’s how you adjust. You can post and the system allows for it …The difference on my course is 120 yds aggregate! You said I was cheating! You are WRONG…#1 it can be done (which I didn’t know), #2 stop calling people cheaters, #3 you have, in the past, called anyone that disagrees with a referees ruling a “whiner”, IMO you gotta get off your high horse. People like you make this game NOT FUN! ( and it is a game) by expressing your opinions and calling people WHINERS and CHEATERS! That’s not gentlemanly! Any opines on my excessive gambling on the course? People like me that play for fun and wager a couple shekels really bother you doesn’t it!
Here you go kinda simply!
Here’s how it’s done!. Golfer A plays 12 holes from the Whites, 4 holes from the Blue, and 2 holes from the Black. He adds the total yardage for the holes played and comes up with 6,400 yards. The listed yardage for the White tees is 6,200 yards. The difference in yardage between the Whites and the tees Golfer A played is 200 yards. The Ratings Adjustments table indicates that for a difference of 200 yards, the difference in course rating is .9 and in slope rating is 2. The regular White tees are rated 70.1/127. Since the yardage Golfer A played is longer than the regular Whites, he would add these numbers to the White rating. The “course” Golfer A played that day is 71.0/129.
For me…that adjustment was actually .48 of a stroke….APOLOGIZE!
- I said that you were not posting scores in accordance with the rules. That was accurate, as you have learned.
- Not once will you read in my posts where I say you have cheated. However, your posting habits resulted in a handicap higher than you should have had, as you have learned. You have corrected that.
- Please find anywhere in the USGA online publications where they recommend using the “Temporary” adjustment tables from Appendix G for anything other than temporary changes. For longer term use of “combo” tees, you can and should have that done through your state or regional Golf Association.
- I’m glad that you’ve learned what you were doing wrong before, and will do better in the future.
- I value the Rules of Golf, they make the game consistent for all of us. I value the Handicap system, because that makes competition possible between players of differing abilities. But neither works properly when individuals feel free to decide for themselves which rules to follow, and which rules they (individually) can break. If my “stickiness” around the rules bothers you, I can live with that. To me, effective competition between players of all abilities, playing by the rules, is what makes golf FUN.
You post your scores from the white tees, but you play the back tees (not even the blues, but the gold tees, two steps back) on something like 8 of the 18 holes, nearly half of them. Your scores will reflect the actual yardage played, so they will (almost certainly) be higher than if you actually played ALL of the white tees. And you claim that your handicap, the product of these higher scores, is somehow valid and legitimate, that you’re not cheating.
Here’s my suggestion. Next time you check in for a competition, tell the Committee exactly what you wrote down in this thread, and ask them what THEY think of your Handicap Index. I’m done with this, perhaps some of the other folks have an opinion.
YES you did! APOLOGIZE
And since you seem to be an expert all you had to say nicely…Did you know the USGA provides a way for you to adjust for that? No you didn’t…not even close… maybe learn how to teach and speak nicely to people and use your expertise proactively and stop calling people CHEATERS & WHINERS! We all want to play by the rules!
I’d say I did tell you that, even pointed you directly at the resource.
And I’ll apologize for using the word “cheat”. But you DID artificially inflate your handicap through your posting habits, and you have now corrected that. What word do golfers generally use for someone whose Handicap is artificially inflated?
Another bit of education, regarding gambling. The USGA recognizes gambling as acceptable, subject to some limitations. You can find more in the Rules of Amateur Status, here:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-of-amateur-status.html#!appendix