What does an article posted in 1979, have to to do with The NEW handicap system? The entire system was upgraded in 2020 and changed including how courses are rated? Why do you think the entire system was redone last year and the system was done in coordination with all of golfs governing bodies? Look no system is perfect, but I would certainly take the word of all golfs governing bodies than I would from you. When you earn the credentials of these people that sit all day long looking for flaws in the new system or the old system for that matter, Iāll give you credence Our course rating was re-evaluated and changed last year because the NEW system is now considered more equitable, hence the word NEW! And the reason it was changed which is why I posted this link earlier https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/WHS-resources/new-world-handicap-system-designed-to-welcome-more-golfers--.html. Dean Knuth created the original system and then wrote an article tearing it down because of a feud he has with the USGA. Then wrote another article in 2020 complaining about the new WHS. So there are alot of opinions out there I recall our pro reviewing at our membership meeting why our course rating was going to change. I will look for it and post it.
I knew Iād find it. Here is the article: http://www.ongolfhandicaps.com/2020/01/dean-knuth-pope-of-slope-or-dope-of.html?m=1 and your particular reasoning has nothing to do with the imperfections of a single stroke for senior golfers relativity to par from forward teesā¦Have a great day on the course!
Itās an interesting issue and something Iāve seen for sureā¦
On the steady vs wild players, itās a huge advantage for the group of wild players, but not one wild playerā¦ if you look at a handicap that has a 76, 5 80s and 2 82s vs someone with 8 80sā¦ it will make an interesting matchā¦ if you have 20 of each of those players, the wild ones are likely to take the win each week.
As for playing a course that doesnāt suit your game, it can definitely inflate your handicapā¦ Iām not sure Iāve met anyone who does this intentionallyā¦ itās very easy to inflate your handicap on any course you want!
It can also teach you how to play a course better! Iād love to get some rounds in on a narrow, short course to make sure Iām developing more skillsā¦ my home course is long and mostly open. We call it a second shot courseā¦
I think the handicap system works fine and is fair enough when people play by the rules and make a genuine attempt to record a real handicapā¦there are plenty of āethicalā ways to raise your cap, such as playing courses that are rated lower than they play or that donāt suit your gameā¦ you can also just putt everything out!
Not as many strokes, but Iām in the same boat. I was down to a 4.5 when I joined my club 6 months ago after mostly playing the LA city courses. Despite having similar (or even easier) slope and rating to the courses I was playing, in reality my club plays more difficult for me. Iām up to a 7.2, but back at the city courses Iām still playing around a 4 (Iād say the slower/easier greens are the biggest reason).
If youāre always trying your best and posting all your eligible scores, then itās not cheating, itās just reality. Just like the pros, certain tournaments suit certain players.
Yeah, I think the flip side of this is when playing in handicapped events you have to accept that it might not be āfairā even if others arenāt sandbagging.
Tight courses with lots of penalty amplifies all this
Good ball striker hitting driver and playing aggressively at a tight course is going to have a handicap that travels extremely well
You are getting strokes, can make birdies and all of the sudden drives that usually lead to double bogey are just fine at a course with less trouble
Good combo for winning lots of mulah
And itās not cheating, just an imperfect system
Iām going to agree with the OP, in that the Course Rating system canāt take into account every factor that matters to every individual. @papageorgio cites one example where a specific type of course might play tougher than another for certain players, even if the CR and Slope are similar. Iāll also agree with @papageorgio, this CAN create an advantage if you play most of your golf at a course that penalizes your weaknesses. When you go to a course thatās more suitable to your game, you might score better than at your home course. I donāt think this is dishonest in any way, its simply a shortcoming in the system. Its good, but its not perfect.
There is a 10 index at my club
He previously got down to a 1 or 2 ~6 years ago before he had 3 kids
He doesnāt play as much and is a little crooked, but he can legitimately hit driver 320. Was playing with him when he took on a 280ish carry (crossing hazard, had a little wind help) and he carried it easily.
The only reason this guy is a 10 is because he is hitting 3 balls ob per round while being aggressiveā¦ it makes sense though, we are playing match play
In a shamble event, he is deadly. He is going to annihilate the good old guys who play to a single digit (straight, good short game).
This guy is the reason i wish esc was more aggressive
Another issue which may impact this discussion is the course rating. If a course hasnāt been rated recently it may not reflect changes made since the last rating. This could result in a handicap that over- or under-states ability.
My home course has not been rated for several years; both club pros agree itās likely a bit overrated. I know our teams in the city club competition donāt travel very well, possibly due to being a bit under capped.
Yeah, I know they have talked about adjusting scores due to weather on certain daysā¦ it would be interesting if they tried to adjust slope via āvisitingā scoresā¦
We donāt have a ton of guest rounds, but it seems like if you had 100+ in a season (which isnāt many) you could compare day of scores vs the membership and possibly figure out a better slope.
I donāt know how the current system works, but it seems like we should have enough data from a variety of sources to adjust things to be more equitableā¦
Whereās Lou?
Yeah I mean Iām not sure if anything can be done about this without overcomplicating the handicap system. Getting within one stroke for 80% of golfers seems pretty good for a model with only two parameters (rating & slope).
I do however think people are far too keen to cry sandbagger as soon as they see a net 62 or something along those lines. It is often a failure of the system itself that creates such results.
Yeah, my suggestion is more aimed at fixing slope and making it more a dynamic ratingā¦
They can easily track where people are playing and should have a large enough data pool to basically compare slopes.
Realistically, they should be able to do it for home courses as wellā¦ if Iām a 6 handicap and playing a 74 slope course, I should be shooting 80 on good daysā¦ if that number is consistently off, the slope is off.
I think you mean course rating rather than slope but I get your point. With enough data you should be able to empirically verify whether or not course and slope ratings are accurate.
I do. Honestly, Iāve never bothered to learn what slope means.
I looked it upā¦ basically hard golf courses are harder for bogey golfers.
This to could be directly improved by data analysis!
Just to keep it light, in the synopsis of words by Robin Williams. I put stuff in the way like trees and bushesā¦a pool and a sandbox to F with your ball while you are whacking away with a tire iron having a stroke. The more length, the more elevation change, the more junk in the way increases the course rating and slope as figured by the USGA evaluators when they visit to evaluate. Think about it in these terms, how difficult would the par 4 #11 at augusta @ 505yds be for a bogey golfer to make bogey.
Iām guessing that any hole at Augusta would be a tough bogey for most of us.
No doubt. I thought I was a good player I was carrying like 4.7 and would easy threaten breaking par on most munis around here. I got invited to Merion the Tuesday after the open that Rosie wonā¦ It was a fun round, but I succumbed with a 126, thatās how hard it is/was to play on their courses. I constantly tell players, you just donāt get it. Itās like when people tell me oh youāre better than the pros as they keep looking at your stats when like last weekend, throwing out the 1 wedge I hit off the planet, I was like 15ft avg away with 10 other lofted clubs and comparing to the stats the tour keepsā¦Yea on my home course, These guys couldnāt keep the balls on the green from 25 yds let alone 75yds on #3. What the hell do you think weād doā¦itād be ARMY Golfā¦you know what that is right? What do you think a Patrick Reed would do to your home course. He could probably break par one handed
The course rating system done by a designated USGA team is obsolete. This can now be done more accurately by using data posted by real golfers of all handicaps who have played that actual course yielding a more accurate slope and rating.
As been said elsewhere, golfers who obtain their handicap by playing many different courses will usually beat a golfer of the same handicap who hones their golf skills on a single (home) course.