-11 doesn’t seem too low for two mid-handicappers in a two day event.
yea - more I think through it seems reasonable given best ball. I wasn’t playing and was more just a question of what is the “reasonable range”
I can never really tell when to get skeptical of handicaps. Tendency is to do it with one good round against you but know there’s bound to be some variance. Add in partners and all that so it’s very complicated
I was accused of a vanity handicap this year by a guy I had never played with before. It was a weird day. I know there are a good number of guys at my club who tend to go that direction rather than sandbagging, people who want to say “oh I’m a 7” rather than the 10-11 they really are.
And for the record, my handicap dropped 2 strokes in a month between posting two sub 80 rounds and dropping multiple plus 90s. I then regressed right back to my average mid 80s
I’ve always felt that people with vanity handicaps have self-esteem issues that are unrelated to their golf ability.
1 Like
Just never saw the point myself. I’m in the lowest division of my golf league and have no desire to move up until my game justifies it
I’m sure a lot of people would think I’m a vanity cap if they saw me on one of my bad days. Most people don’t seem to understand how handicaps work.
3 Likes
Our league plays a rota of many different courses and maintains their own indexes; they don’t accept ‘outside’ handicaps. Indexes are strictly WHS-compliant, just insulated.
Therefore my ‘home club’ advantage (and index) is irrelevant unless it happens to be on their rota (only happened once).
My index with them is derived only from tourney conditions on (relatively) unfamiliar venues. Additionally, they use a form of ‘Equitable Strokes’ to exclude blowup hole scores for anyone tempted to inflate their index (the blowup score is used for tourney scoring only; the ES-applied score is used to compute index).
Under these circumstances it would take a lot of wasted entry fees to move an index!
3 Likes
This makes a lot of sense to me. I think stricter ESC would solve a lot of the sandbagging in the 8-14 handicap range. Club events reward guys who can make birdies (best ball will cancel blowups, quota/stableford, etc).
I actually keep an excel tab where I record all my rounds and I frequently will key in my playing partners. Helps me handicap the guys I play with who play 5 or 6 times a year and don’t keep a handicap. It also helps me ID some partners who consistently outperform handicap.
1 Like
Sandbagging seems to be a problem everywhere…
It’s an interesting problem, and it seems like the best answer is to have people play as many competitive rounds as possible…
My club does weekly events but also has a season long points to encourage people to play… Obviously not perfect but better than nothing.
One guy does play 4-5 rounds a week and usually scores better on saturdays… so his handicap is a little suspect.
Honest question: whats your opinionon this?
I sign up for a membership at a course that doesn’t suit my strengths at all. I play most of my rounds there trying my best to score as well as possible and end up with a 13 HDCP. I then play in a bunch of handicap events on courses where Im actually more like an 8 and win a bunch.
Btw Im not actually thinking about doing this, but I have to imagine this scenario comes up often. A lot of the perpetraters likely dont even realize whats going on.
1 Like
Your handicap would/should be adjusted according to the slope/rating of the course. you are playing. My course plays to a rating of 70.8 with a slope of 128 from the back tees. My current hdcp is a 6.3. pine hill plays to a 75.3 rating with a slope of 153. My handicap there would be a 12. So unless you inflate your scores at your home course it would be very difficult to cheat the new USGA system https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/WHS-resources/new-world-handicap-system-designed-to-welcome-more-golfers--.html
Im talking about raw handicap not index on a specific course.
For example I would average 85 on a course A rated 68/113, and would average 85 on course B rated 72/130. I play a bunch of rounds on course A to establish a handicap, and then play competitive rounds on course B. I would have a huge advantage in any handicap event.
This scenario would occur in something like a member guest event, where the member’s course suits the guest much better than his home course.
I belong to the Golf Assoc of Phila, I turn in my scores to them and also the course and tee boxes I played whether on a visited course or home. I cannot record more than dbl bogey on any hole per the new system. You can establish a handicap utilizing a hdcp system on line from a non registered entity, but without your USGA hdcp card, it would not count. No your hdcp would be adjusted down to go from a more difficult rated course to lower rated course, You should play to a lower hdcp. Unless you are playing with your scores if you played 20 rounds, lets say 10 rounds on each and reported honestly your hdcp would adjust accordingly. I mean I “could” play a round in the 70’s at Pine Hill, but highly unlikely. But I would have a much easier time playing a round in the 70’s to a course of similar slope and rating…AND under your scenario course A is easier so if you established a hdcp there, your hdcp would go up on course B not down and it would be much more difficult for your to score. One time shot maybe…but not over the course of the 20 round minimum.
The thing is there are certain courses that are rated harder than others, but I personally find much easier to score on. One course is rated 68.6/122 and I have never broken 85 on it and average closer to 90. Another course is rated 72.6/127 and I have broken 80 multiple times on it, even broken par on 9 holes, and average in the low 80’s.
First course is short but very narrow. I’m pretty much guaranteed a couple lost balls even hitting irons off the tee. Second course is long, but most holes you can miss 40-50 yards on either side and just end up in the rough. I hit it long but am erratic so naturally the first course fits me terribly, and the second course fits me very well.
So, if I played the short narrow course exclusively, then played tournament rounds on the long open course, I’d have a huge advantage. Granted if I played well in those tournament rounds those scores would greatly decrease my handicap, but I could easily just play 20 more rounds on the short narrow course and repeat.
Basically I’m of the opinion that handicaps are only accurate for the same tees on the same course. Once you start moving tee boxes or courses, I have no faith in their accuracy.
Write your emails and concerns to the R&A and USGA…what do they know right? I’m just telling you how it works, Every single governing body utilizes the new system, after playing this game at a reasonably high level for 37 years, and playing in and viewing personally, several USGA sanctioned events, I personally believe they might know what they are doing, Don’t bitch at me, I’m just conveying information. It does sound to me that you have some frustrations with golfs governing bodies, I mean, there is a rule book, that all of us follow, those rules are also written by those governing bodies, but you can use foot wedges, roll the ball, take mulligans, just play any way you want, but not in their sanctioned events or most likely any local golf association because they all use the same rules and hdcp systems.
FFS I’m not bitching at you. I’m just explaining how its still possible to game the system without outright cheating.
Also, I don’t think the USGA can really do anything about this so long as they wish to hold handicap competitions for golfers from many different courses.
That being said, if one is playing in such tournaments they ought to realize that some people are going to have a big advantage solely due to course fit. Naively, it may seem sketchy when someone shoots a couple net 63’s to win, but its not that unreasonable if they are 5-6 strokes better on that course because it suits their game.
The only way you can game the new system is to sandbag your actual scoring period. As a former golf professional, I have seen it done and the memberships usually don’t take kindly to ungentlemanly play over the course of a season. If you are not posting to the USGA I hate to tell you you don’t have a handicap or even know what yours actually is. GAP now actually utilizes membership numbers so all of your play, if you are being on the up and up, is accurate and if you play in sanctioned events they will call the ball on you
You truly are helpless lol.
How so, are you a USGA member, do you play in sanctioned events? ILook anyone can play golf, it a fun game, it’s a game that cannot be won or lost only played at different levels, so far you’ve bitched about the accuracy of the hdcp system that was developed and now utilized by every governing body on the planet. I’m telling you plainly and simply how it works. You seem to disagree with the USGA systems…that’s ok, once again, like I said, you seem to know better, what in God’s name does the USGA know compared to you. I think you have it mixed up who is hopeless here
Actually interesting to find out that the USGA was/is 100% aware of the issues I am describing. From the following source:
http://popeofslope.com/courserating/twoparameter.html
"8. Future Research: The Player Variability Problem
The HRT has shown that 80% of all bogey golfers fit the model within one stroke. However, two distinct types of golfers fall outside of these limits. These types have been labeled “Steady Eddy” and “Wild Willy.” Steady Eddy represents 12% of all golfers and he is a very straight, but short ball striker who has an outstanding short game. When taken from a short course to a long course, his score increase8 greater than the model would show, thus he is under-handicapped at a high Slope course. Conversely, Wild Willy is a long-hitter, but is inaccurate. Representing 8% of bogey golfers, this type can be over- handicapped on a long open course, but under-handicapped on any very tight and punitive course.
The HRT is considering a solution of adopting a normal model handicap formula which would mesh a two dimensional handicap to the Slope System. The solution could result in a Steady Eddy receiving more strokes on a high Slope Rated course than a Wild Willy of equal Handicap Index would receive."
This type of implementation never happened but it is interesting that it was considered at one point.
1 Like