For the new golfers ( and the experienced golfers )

Practice
#21

I don’t know if this is an early-release fix drill, but an excellent one for ensuring I don’t have the feel of starting my lower body too early is the “Countertop” drill of Monte Scheinblum. (I know the lower body actually does move first in the downswing; this drill is to reinforce proper sequence of its movement.) In the process, my release is much later.

Basically, take your backswing, shift and transition, and start your downswing. At P6, so, wrists still cocked, hands coming down and just away from your right thigh, shaft parallel ish to the ground: Stop. Just like you’re resting the club on a knee high-ish countertop.

Then, try to hit the ball with releasing the wrist cock, and really trying to rotate by pushing your pressure from left toe to left instep / heel. IOW, you’re trying to rotate your body, send your hands out and around, while pulling up, and trying to hit the ball.

It doesn’t matter if you hit the ball. You likely won’t, and your strike will be garbage. That’s fine. The point of the drill is to combine rotation, hands striking through the ball, and pulling up…and doing all that only when your right arm has reconnected to your torso and lost the right arm angle. Then, you stomp on the gas with left leg pressure, right hand trying to slap the #÷ out of the ball, and rotation.

That drill has really helped me stay in sequence, with a lot of force being applied—I have found I unintentionally grunt sort of like Monica Seles these days—yet all the moving parts in front of me and in balance.

Learn how your ground pressure is supposed to move in the full swing, and learn how your hips should move. AMG’s video is excellent for that.

Extremely counterintuitive motion.

#22

This image had helped me and many others to minimize the newbie mistakes.
When coming into the impact, one must feel that the whole left side is bracing against a wall and swing around the left side as the pivoting point.
After shifting weight to the left, one must feel like anchoring the left to the ground and everything swings around it. No more swaying, lifting, squatting. Until after the impact.
I will try the drill which worked for your golf game.
I understand many of us will understand better if taken the swing in sequence, analyzing, before able to digest.
We like to keep a few key points in mind and everything else evolves around these key notes. Preferred just one or two key reminders at a time.
Know a guy who likes to know everything (he is a professional gambler by trade and likes to calculate odds on everything, his mind is set up that way). He will try anything and everything from YouTube videos, or a tip from golf buddy or professional advice. But he could never keep the progress for long because he was always trying something new.
19 years playing twice or more per week and he is still an 18 index.
I had given up helping him. For I had fixed him quite a few times and he will always try something else when I see him later in a few weeks.
So, don’t let people tell you that we need a near perfect golf swing to play good golf.
Find your own way by kicking out the ones that don’t work for you and keep the ones that work for you and practice plenty.
All the proof we need is by looking at the winners on the professional Tour, no two swings a golf club the same way and some trophy winners ’ golf swing are not even close to a perfect golf swing.
Find a way which will maximize your swing speed, without tearing your body apart. Have a repeatable golf swing, enjoy the game.
These days, quote my favorite person in golf, Harvey Penick, it gives me goosebumps when I see beginner overcome their issue and start to send the golf balls airborne.

#23

Concur. Skills-based instruction, a la what @Adamyounggolf teaches, is outstanding for that.

It’s not trying to fix your swing. It is trying to get data about how your normal swing works at impact: path, face angle, AoA, strike location. Then teach you drills about varying each of those. After you practice the drills, then exaggerating opposite tendencies, with the idea that in doing so, you can teach yourself how to move toe impact inwards. Or make a shallow path steeper. Etc…

So when you find yourself with an unsatisfactory result, you don’t totally overhaul your swing, but you might emphasize an opposite feel to get things back where they should be. Then you can stop thinking about your swing, and start playing the game of golf.

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#24

I had learned that my first golf instructor had passed back in 2017 at the age of 82.
Always grateful that he never tried to correct my slice when I was a newbie. I had this rainbow slice of 10 yards or so with every club in the bag except for the short irons.
Instead of giving me the band aid fix.
I asked him why he did not try to correct me to hit the golf shots straight or a draw as I thought it was the best ball flight at the time.
His short answer was, that I hit the golf shot well enough, fluid in the motion and solid contact. Ball flight misses to the right but dependable and trajectory was high. He said, I’d figured it out soon by the 3rd or the 4th year of golf.
The ball flight of my golf shots are mostly straight and a baby fade of 5 yards if I swing hard with long clubs.
BTW, I’m still working on a way to produce a dependable draw flight. I can produce a draw but not very dependable. High draw with the long clubs is the most difficult shot trajectory for me from day one.
When I see the young teaching professionals trying to fit everyone into a cookie cutter of golf swing, sigh. But that is what they were taught in the golf school. Using the same software (very impressive to the newbies), it has the feel of automated assembly lines.

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#25

Well, high shots period with long clubs are a pain. Which is one reason why hybrids are so popular.

I wish my rainbow slice only curved 10 yards…lol. Glad he didn’t mess with you, but helped you figure it out.

#26

High fade is never an issue with my game, just didn’t have the distance like some stronger golfers. My 3 iron (91 Apex F/W) was only carried 192-195 when I was younger. A stronger golfer could muster over 210 yards. Since the trajectory of my golf shots were pretty high, there was very little rolling out after landing so total yardage in the drier months is still under 200 for the 3 iron off the turf. After I lost some swing speed, the 2&3 irons were replaced by 3 and 4 hybrids.
High draw from the driver requires higher swing speed than the average. I was close to producing a reliable high draw on demand with the driver when my driver swing speed was close to 102. Lost that when crossing the age of 61, together with shoulder tissue inflammation (over used). Believe it or not, arthritis in the hands and fingers also from decades of beating range balls.

#27

“Shifting weight to the left (front) side”.
This can be confusing to newbies and experienced golfers alike. This is where I believed a modern teaching tool using video analysis helps.
Old school, we used a full-length mirror hanging on the wall, at the end of the driving range for self-analysis.
What is your take on this?

#28

I used a mirror and masking tape, issue with that is you did lift your head to look at position. I record my swing today using an app that I can stop and start to check position. The appearance of a weight shift that finishes on the left leg is a fallacy. That happens if you execute correctly. The image of turning in a barrel still holds true today. For a RH player the R leg is a post or better explained as a wall. It doesn’t move. The swing needs to be broken down into 2 parts. The shoulders and arms hips turn in this barrel to wind up. The left leg pushes into the ground, When that happens the left hip and shoulder will also tilt lower because the knee and ankle are hinging. When you push that leg up from the ground, the left hip raises, the right hip naturally is lowered below the left. The right elbow should be coming down to that right hip which is the flattening of the plane. The upper body unwinds as you are pushing ure weight up from the ground with your left ankle, knee and leg. It’s almost 2 separate moves that happen simultaneously. As your upper body unwinds (shoulders and arms) leading the club to impact the ball…. If you are doing it correctly you will almost feel you are barely holding on to the club trying to return your hands to where you started. However, that’s not quite true you want to actually return your hands about 6 inches past that…. there’s the lag. The swing starts with shoulders and arms turning on what I would explain is a center post, while that left leg pushes into the ground. That’s my thought. A mirror will show that you are staying fairly centered, anything more that 2 inches is swaying and you are losing power.

#29

Right leg as a post, bracing against the weight transfer to create resistance and torque. Left “side” brace against an imaginary wall to stop the sliding when right side catches up.
All, should be a very simple and natural move.
This is why I often heard the comments of “what a beautiful golf swing” to the young golfers. Children do not have all these swing thoughts in their minds when we put their hands on a golf grip.
This is exactly why some of us with engineering and analytical minds could not free our mind from all the information while swinging a golf club.
As they say, do the practice on the driving range, play the golf game on the golf course.

Improper weight shift is often caused by the extra movement of the hips. This is the reason why we use barriers to let the golfers feel where their hip position is during the golf swing.
There is a difference of moving the weight and swinging like Cha-Cha dancing.
I know a guy who took the words “feeling loose” to the letters. When I looked at his weight shifting. He has no prior injury of the hips for excuse, the hinge from hips to the torso was not only twisting but clearly sliding. Simply holding up a golf shaft to his right hip to make him feel his exaggerated hip bumps are out of position. Same thing when instructors will hold on to a student’s body parts to make them feel the proper position. Jack Grout held on to Nicklaus’ hair while he was learning to keep his head steady.
The “feel” of a golf swing is impossible to convey.
How do we tell a female gender to feel the power from the ground up, or from the legs up? I can’t tell them, instead of lifting and straightening their left knee will lift their shoulders which will cause inconsistent contact. How to explain to them that part of the “feel” for the snap of the lower body at impact is simply to feel the cheeks are squeezing hard together. This is a natural feeling when tightening the muscles. It is taught in many sports as well as the breathing exercise in yoga and martial arts. However, it is borderline not being proper to include in the conversation.
The old method of holding on, bracing, a body part to let one “feel” the proper position is still the best way to get the point across. Videos lack how it is supposed to feel for a proper position. We copy the image but not the essence.

#30

When I look at many golfers, myself included (from a video or a mirror image); 99% of the mistake of missing solid contact to the golf ball is boiling down to one thing.
The fault in a golf swing could be traced back to one origin.

Guess which one?

#31

OMG! I couldn’t tell you what YOUR issue was without looking at a couple different recorded angles of YOUR swing. My issues with solid contact started with address being too far away from the ball. Which got corrected, that caused an over the top move and the club coming into the ball too steep which was then corrected, which then caused the swing to become too flattened which caused the duck I fight to this day, then there are little things that newbies do like swaying, like coming out out of it too soon, like poor grip and NOT getting a pronation into impact, then there’s the early release, I can go on. There is NOT one singular cause of not solid contact. Then you have to be able to understand your body and your lies. Your lie will dictate your impact position once you get on the course. There is not ONE singular cause of a mishit. AND! Even a pro, who hits thousands of balls daily will get one high on the face, or close the face a titch to soon or opposite of that and wipe it, even a mishit with a putter. All that said, for newbie’s the biggest reason they can’t execute solid contact begins and ends with poor grip fundamentals and AoA Period Full Stop! They are constantly fidgeting and they end up hitting poor shots. I don’t think the question was worded correctly.

#32

Not picking on you, but have you seen Mo Norman’s golf swing? Or the video of his golf swing? What do you think of his address position to the golf ball? Far enough? Being the straightest shot maker in his era, he certainly had a style of his own. Hands too far away from the golf ball promote a pendulum style of swing, the cost of doing so is lost of distance.
Many tried to copy his style to no avail.
A more recent example of a none picture perfect golf swing, how about Jon Rahm?
The position of all the links in their body are correct at all times.

Whenever we see a separation of the body parts relating to a golf swing, it not only causes the loss of power and direction, but essentially could cause early injury.

Mind you, all competitive “sports” will leave some mark on our body if we get involved. That will be the price to pay for glory. However, the promotion of the reverse C in the past had certainly contributed more to the cause of injury.

As far as the golf grip. Mr. Penick said in his book that he would like to see at least one hand is on a grip correctly. Guessing that he meant both hands should be on the grip correctly in order to deliver the maximum power with directional control.
But I had seen some ugly golf grips and they worked for the golfer who used it. The grip might cause early arthritis in their fingers sooner than the average but nothing wrong if the grip produces a repeatable golf swing for the individual.
We like to look at the result of the ball flight which produced by the golfer before we even start to exam in detail of what their fundamentals are doing.

#33

I am a proponent of the 5 Lessons–Modern Fundamentals that were written by Mr. Hogan. His book, IMO, and heralded by many, ad nauseam, is the best book ever written to get you on your journey of the “GOLF SWING”. I love watching Mr. Hogan’s swing. I also love watching Al Geiberger’s swing, I love watching Bob Jones’ swing, I think Ernie Els’ swing is a masterpiece. I do not try to emulate them. Mr. Hogan’s swing worked for Mr. Hogan and Mr. Hogan alone. I have seen Mr. Mo’s swing. It worked very well for Mr. Mo! Would that work for you? Probably not. This is what I will tell you though, if you take every single great and solid golf swing, THE POSITION on the downswing, from the right hip…on through impact…on through the left hip (before the finish) You tell me, how similar (almost EXACT) they all look. EXACT! Rahm gets there, Furyk gets there, Daly gets there, Palmer gets there, Trevino gets there, Nicklaus gets there, Hogan got there! All of them get/got there! There is nothing wrong with a strong grip (Fred Couples), nothing wrong with a weaker grip (Lee Trevino)… they all are solid in their grip and execute everything in THEIR SWING every single time. EVERY TIME! I used to swing the club a certain way, actually so did Mr Hogan and so did Mr Woods. They sustained horrible injury, I sustained a horrible shoulder injury. I, as did they, had to rebuild my swing through trial and error, mistake after mistake, to build a reliable move to get into THE POSITION again because I could physically no longer do what I used to do, what I executed for 20 something years. I was standing too far away because I could no longer turn the shoulder to 96* I was barely getting to 90* when I started…PAIN. just couldn’t do it. The golf swing shouldn’t be painful. It took work. I couldn’t hit thousands of balls, I could only hit hundreds of balls. It took work to build a reliable motion that had speed and power and consistency. Then in Late July this year…BY JOVE…I got it. So I keep working on strength and flexibility now. Which gives me more distance and consistency. What works now for me, probably won’t work for you. What works for you, won’t work for anyone else but you! ALL SAID, I still started with those HOGAN FUNDAMENTALS, #1 GRIP, #2 “STANCE, POSTURE, BALL POSITION” #3 BACKSWING, #4 DOWNSWING & FINISH #5 PUT IT ALL TOGETHER! The answer for me was in the dirt, the answer for you is in the dirt. I will tell you this the GOLF SWING is 2 separate areas, the LOWER BODY and the UPPER BODY. These 2 have to work in unison. Your reverse C finish, a Palmer Helicopter Finish, Mo’s Half-Way finish, Geiberger or Els perfectly balanced finish… are just the ending to their own individual symphony. The golf swing, is not a natural motion. just isn’t. If a newbie is trained correctly… injury isn’t part of the equation. When I finally got to swing a club, when I first learned, the changes that were made by my teacher all centered around the Modern Fundamentals. I had to relearn a GRIP, I had to learn about POSTURE and STANCE, etc. My swing, however is my own and NO ONE ELSE’s as I’m certain yours is yours! :smiley:

#34

100%.
Most of us could not get all of it from the first few passes. I enjoy reading it from time to time.

“I love watching Bob Jones’ swing”
I do, too. But his golf swing is more suited to the hickory shaft era.

I enjoy the benefit of technology to observe the videos of golf greats from the past.

#35

If I was to teach someone today how to swing a golf club, I would teach them this way… First get a solid grip on the club. Once that was established. I would have them stand str8 up and down, legs and feet together, bend their knees slightly, grip the club, hold the club str8 out, then bend at the waist until the club touches the ground. Then have them swing the club back and forth. Then, I would have them continue to swing in a longer motion, just back and forth turning just the shoulders. Just staying centered, Then swing as hard as you can without falling off your spot. Once you lose balance, that’s as hard as you should ever swing a club. Then, I would do the same thing with just the lower body, no club, hands at their side, and get that lower body moving correctly so the student could see the left hand getting lower than the right, then pushing off the ground with the left leg so they could see the left hand raising higher than the right. Finally, then putting both together so the student knows the speed to turn the shoulder without falling off balance, and working that with the lower body move. 2 totally separate motions moving in conjunction with one another. Once the student, gets that basic ingrained, the we can work on speed and flexibility, because a wider base will give them more stability to not fall off balance. That’s just me! BTW, Mr Jones could swing a metal broomstick and look beautiful. All of these guys would have adapted their games to the equipment of today regardless of anything. I have 7 Hickory Sticks.(I collect golf clubs the fool I am)… No the ball doesn’t go as far as todays stuff, but I’m not hitting a gutty either, I actually have some Maxi 90 compression balatas. The issue with a hickory is the torque and twisting of the club head, you had to have a better swing than you have today, you miss with those…oh boy! it’s a miss times 5! They are actually very reliable clubs! Mr. Jones in his prime would be busting the ball 300+ and as str8 and consistent as anyone, probably more so. Mr. Hogan the same… Could you imagine what Babe Ruth would do today with a Live Ball? The game hasn’t changed that much… the conditions of the playing fields… that’s all you need to think about!

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#36

Paddy used a Hickory Bulger and a Gutty Check this out!

So here is definitive stuff… Paddy whacks ‘em good. He was able to generate a SS of 105mph with the HickStick! He only carried the Gutty 155yds.!!! :rofl: What do you think Bob Jones’ swing would do with todays ball and equipment! I say He’d be similar to John Daly, with that long flowing swing! I just love stuff like this… real interesting stuff!

#37

Never said anything bad regarding Jones golf swing.
His wristy swing suited the hickory shaft perfect.
Even himself commented after witness Nicklaus play, " you’re playing a different game than I had".
Anyone could benefit from the modern golf equipment . The differences are plan for everyone to see on the video .

#38

You will not do this if, you first get into the posture ready to relase the power.
Your golf hero ( mine, too) Mr.Ben Hogan on video. Watch his hip position. First move from the top is to get the hip to the fowrad positon, the rest follow in a sequence which is natural to the human anatomy. This first move of getting into the “hiotting position” with the hips and knees before the arms fully released is the key for stay behind the golf ball to employ the maximum power one could exert.
Remember to get the lower body into position of shifting weight to the front side first.
I would employ your cideo function on your smart phone or a full length mirror to aid you visually for understanding and apply the principles.
Another easy way to make people understand is to stand face to face to each other at arm’s length (or use the corner of wall/door); let them extand their arm and push your shoulder horizontally. They will learn two things.
One, they muct have a solid connection to the ground for balance to exert power.
Secondly, an already extended trailing arm ( right arm/elbow for a righty) will have less power than one is still in the motion of reaching full extension.
Easy to understand and do not need any gadgets to demonstrate.

#39

The problem for us, is that move all happens in a millisecond. It’s easy to describe, it’s easy to see, it’s not so easy to execute. It takes alot (and I mean alot) of repetitions. Then after alot of repetitions we might be able to execute it to some degree. I’m going to work on it this winter. I’m not going to play much winter golf, unless the days are in the 50s this year. I’m going to devote my time to conditioning and flexibility and weight loss and see where the chips fall!

#40

No issue there if your coordination is half decent. If you are/were incolved in any other type of sports activity you’ll be able to execute the move once, you understand the cause and the effect.
This in clude all the sports you played with your buddies in your youth.
The younger generation might have more difficulty grasping the concept because they grew up playing video games.