For the new golfers ( and the experienced golfers )

I am a proponent of the 5 Lessons–Modern Fundamentals that were written by Mr. Hogan. His book, IMO, and heralded by many, ad nauseam, is the best book ever written to get you on your journey of the “GOLF SWING”. I love watching Mr. Hogan’s swing. I also love watching Al Geiberger’s swing, I love watching Bob Jones’ swing, I think Ernie Els’ swing is a masterpiece. I do not try to emulate them. Mr. Hogan’s swing worked for Mr. Hogan and Mr. Hogan alone. I have seen Mr. Mo’s swing. It worked very well for Mr. Mo! Would that work for you? Probably not. This is what I will tell you though, if you take every single great and solid golf swing, THE POSITION on the downswing, from the right hip…on through impact…on through the left hip (before the finish) You tell me, how similar (almost EXACT) they all look. EXACT! Rahm gets there, Furyk gets there, Daly gets there, Palmer gets there, Trevino gets there, Nicklaus gets there, Hogan got there! All of them get/got there! There is nothing wrong with a strong grip (Fred Couples), nothing wrong with a weaker grip (Lee Trevino)… they all are solid in their grip and execute everything in THEIR SWING every single time. EVERY TIME! I used to swing the club a certain way, actually so did Mr Hogan and so did Mr Woods. They sustained horrible injury, I sustained a horrible shoulder injury. I, as did they, had to rebuild my swing through trial and error, mistake after mistake, to build a reliable move to get into THE POSITION again because I could physically no longer do what I used to do, what I executed for 20 something years. I was standing too far away because I could no longer turn the shoulder to 96* I was barely getting to 90* when I started…PAIN. just couldn’t do it. The golf swing shouldn’t be painful. It took work. I couldn’t hit thousands of balls, I could only hit hundreds of balls. It took work to build a reliable motion that had speed and power and consistency. Then in Late July this year…BY JOVE…I got it. So I keep working on strength and flexibility now. Which gives me more distance and consistency. What works now for me, probably won’t work for you. What works for you, won’t work for anyone else but you! ALL SAID, I still started with those HOGAN FUNDAMENTALS, #1 GRIP, #2 “STANCE, POSTURE, BALL POSITION” #3 BACKSWING, #4 DOWNSWING & FINISH #5 PUT IT ALL TOGETHER! The answer for me was in the dirt, the answer for you is in the dirt. I will tell you this the GOLF SWING is 2 separate areas, the LOWER BODY and the UPPER BODY. These 2 have to work in unison. Your reverse C finish, a Palmer Helicopter Finish, Mo’s Half-Way finish, Geiberger or Els perfectly balanced finish… are just the ending to their own individual symphony. The golf swing, is not a natural motion. just isn’t. If a newbie is trained correctly… injury isn’t part of the equation. When I finally got to swing a club, when I first learned, the changes that were made by my teacher all centered around the Modern Fundamentals. I had to relearn a GRIP, I had to learn about POSTURE and STANCE, etc. My swing, however is my own and NO ONE ELSE’s as I’m certain yours is yours! :smiley:

100%.
Most of us could not get all of it from the first few passes. I enjoy reading it from time to time.

“I love watching Bob Jones’ swing”
I do, too. But his golf swing is more suited to the hickory shaft era.

I enjoy the benefit of technology to observe the videos of golf greats from the past.

If I was to teach someone today how to swing a golf club, I would teach them this way… First get a solid grip on the club. Once that was established. I would have them stand str8 up and down, legs and feet together, bend their knees slightly, grip the club, hold the club str8 out, then bend at the waist until the club touches the ground. Then have them swing the club back and forth. Then, I would have them continue to swing in a longer motion, just back and forth turning just the shoulders. Just staying centered, Then swing as hard as you can without falling off your spot. Once you lose balance, that’s as hard as you should ever swing a club. Then, I would do the same thing with just the lower body, no club, hands at their side, and get that lower body moving correctly so the student could see the left hand getting lower than the right, then pushing off the ground with the left leg so they could see the left hand raising higher than the right. Finally, then putting both together so the student knows the speed to turn the shoulder without falling off balance, and working that with the lower body move. 2 totally separate motions moving in conjunction with one another. Once the student, gets that basic ingrained, the we can work on speed and flexibility, because a wider base will give them more stability to not fall off balance. That’s just me! BTW, Mr Jones could swing a metal broomstick and look beautiful. All of these guys would have adapted their games to the equipment of today regardless of anything. I have 7 Hickory Sticks.(I collect golf clubs the fool I am)… No the ball doesn’t go as far as todays stuff, but I’m not hitting a gutty either, I actually have some Maxi 90 compression balatas. The issue with a hickory is the torque and twisting of the club head, you had to have a better swing than you have today, you miss with those…oh boy! it’s a miss times 5! They are actually very reliable clubs! Mr. Jones in his prime would be busting the ball 300+ and as str8 and consistent as anyone, probably more so. Mr. Hogan the same… Could you imagine what Babe Ruth would do today with a Live Ball? The game hasn’t changed that much… the conditions of the playing fields… that’s all you need to think about!

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Paddy used a Hickory Bulger and a Gutty Check this out!

So here is definitive stuff… Paddy whacks ‘em good. He was able to generate a SS of 105mph with the HickStick! He only carried the Gutty 155yds.!!! :rofl: What do you think Bob Jones’ swing would do with todays ball and equipment! I say He’d be similar to John Daly, with that long flowing swing! I just love stuff like this… real interesting stuff!

Never said anything bad regarding Jones golf swing.
His wristy swing suited the hickory shaft perfect.
Even himself commented after witness Nicklaus play, " you’re playing a different game than I had".
Anyone could benefit from the modern golf equipment . The differences are plan for everyone to see on the video .

You will not do this if, you first get into the posture ready to relase the power.
Your golf hero ( mine, too) Mr.Ben Hogan on video. Watch his hip position. First move from the top is to get the hip to the fowrad positon, the rest follow in a sequence which is natural to the human anatomy. This first move of getting into the “hiotting position” with the hips and knees before the arms fully released is the key for stay behind the golf ball to employ the maximum power one could exert.
Remember to get the lower body into position of shifting weight to the front side first.
I would employ your cideo function on your smart phone or a full length mirror to aid you visually for understanding and apply the principles.
Another easy way to make people understand is to stand face to face to each other at arm’s length (or use the corner of wall/door); let them extand their arm and push your shoulder horizontally. They will learn two things.
One, they muct have a solid connection to the ground for balance to exert power.
Secondly, an already extended trailing arm ( right arm/elbow for a righty) will have less power than one is still in the motion of reaching full extension.
Easy to understand and do not need any gadgets to demonstrate.

The problem for us, is that move all happens in a millisecond. It’s easy to describe, it’s easy to see, it’s not so easy to execute. It takes alot (and I mean alot) of repetitions. Then after alot of repetitions we might be able to execute it to some degree. I’m going to work on it this winter. I’m not going to play much winter golf, unless the days are in the 50s this year. I’m going to devote my time to conditioning and flexibility and weight loss and see where the chips fall!

No issue there if your coordination is half decent. If you are/were incolved in any other type of sports activity you’ll be able to execute the move once, you understand the cause and the effect.
This in clude all the sports you played with your buddies in your youth.
The younger generation might have more difficulty grasping the concept because they grew up playing video games.

LOL…video games… you are 100% correct.

My own kids could relate to the video and tech much better than reading a text. Even all of them were avid readers when they were young. We were one of the families who will visit the public library every week.

Maybe, the A.I. will run the world in the future. Simply because the world is changing.

Golf will be reverting back to the game for the elite because there won;t be suitable landscape for golf courses.

During a golf swing, should the left side ( leading side ) or the right side ( trailing side ) be the dominant side for power?
I once asked a fellow golfer this question while waiting on the 10th tee, he then lost his concentration for the inward 9.
I had understand and realized different expression throughout the years of my golf experience.
I was so convinced oat each stage of evolution of my learning. Trouble is, the convicions were not on the same path.

If one looks at all of the best ball-strikers in this game (amateur or pro), they all end up in the same position. You are asking the wrong question and, as your partner found out…who became discombobulated on the Inward 9 as you said when you made him think.

I work very hard on this…for me, a 65 YO amateur, still pumping it out there with a driver 240-250 very consistently I can attest to the LINK Below.
The Master has Spoken!

Below was me in August of 2023, One of my Best of the Year, I’m usually 240-250!

The question was, if your golf swing is dominated by the leading or the trailing side of your body.
Ben Hogan did not answer the question directly, when asked if he swings with the left arm more or with the righ arm.
He did, at one time said something along this line, “I wish I have 2 right arms”.
By watching the video of Mickey Wright, who Ben Hogan said owns the best golf swing, men or women; one should have a good idea of how a golf swing should look like.
I’ll delay my thoughts on this just in case someone else wish to express their side of the observation.

I understand the question. It’s worded wrong. Neither side is dominant. It’s a turn. Hoke Austin used Kinetics to prove this. Mr Hogan also thought the best ball striker he ever saw was Lee Trevino. It was no secret when he forged new irons he would always say to his team, take this down to the Little Mexican guy and let him give you feedback. Lee Buck, BHs Guinea Pig Planting the seed in your playing partners mind should have told you this. There isn’t anything dominant, it’s force and resistance creating speed. Physics calls it a lever & fulcrum. There is no dominant side.

Your levers are the length of your left arm and golf club. If you swing the club back without cocking your wrists you are using one lever (left arm). Adding the second lever (club) by cocking your wrists substantially increases swing arc length and clubhead speed.

With the golf swing the resistance or weight is the clubhead, the fulcrum is the left shoulder and the force is from the body applied to the center of the beam measured as the length of the left arm and clubshaft.

I hope that made sense. I still think your question is worded incorrectly. I have really worked hard to understand the golf swing and how it works.

No it was not worded “wrong”.
Maybe this way you’ll understand a little better.
The age old question posted to Ben Hogan was; did he use more left side coming down from the top or did he use more right side as himself said that he wished he had two right roms?

You were not “wrong” in your assessment and understanding, interpretation of the golf swing. But yoiu had jumped the gun and reached the conclusion before the run is over.

Of course, the weight shift dictates the move from the top. Bben Hogan produced such powerful golf swing from his relatively smaller frame is because he utilized his whole body as the power plant. Same as Lee Travino, Juan Antonio “Chi-Chi” Rodríguez, none of them have the same golf swing, but they all maxed out of what their physical frame could produce.

So which part of the body was “dominating” at which stage of the golf swing?

Obviously, with Hogan’s wish of two right arms, we can assess the right side should be dominating through the golf ball.

Supposed that we comparing the take-away as the first gear of shifting gears in a manual transmission, the coiling up on the top of the swing is the second gear, and the starting of the transition down is the third. Should be more “dominating” with the leading side.
The leading and the trailing side should be working together ( coming together) when accelerating into the impact.
Then the high gear should be taking over by the trailing side while accelrating through the impact as the high gear for more speed.
Or have I lost you , again?

BH always felt it was the hips and lower body that initiated both the the back swing and downswing. In Five Lessons Hogan makes a very interesting statement about the hands, a comment to which you are referring to as arms. “As far as applying power goes, I wish that I had three right hands,” he writes. His natural left-handedness enabled him to support the club through impact, and his open clubface coming into impact allowed him to hit as aggressively as possible with the right hand without fear of it taking over. Although Hogan may have felt it was his right hand, he was actually using his whole right side, and maybe the statement should have been “three right sides.” Not only was his right hand involved with hitting the ball, but so were his right foot, knee, hip, arm and shoulder. This is a great thought, and for players in a good position halfway down, the right side should play a major role in the hit–just like throwing a ball, as Hogan describes.

Again, physics and the understanding of how a lever and fulcrum work is Hogan’s “secret sauce”. Yes you have to bash balls to get the correct sequence to maximize the speed and power YOU can create with your body. I still wouldn’t use the word dominant as I am saying above…it’s a total release of the right side. BH felt it was his hand was delivering the blow, and it was, but coming down it’s the entire right side, I was bought up with the notion of weight shift, I no longer subscribe to that swing thought. My current thought is one of a vertical see-saw, where the faster I can turn is how you can “step on the gas” creating power.

When we look at a picture, not two will come up with the same conclusion. You will have to learn to accept others poiint of view, or you will never be a good teacher or mentor for the others.
This is one of my weakness. I would tell my point of view until proven wrong. Before that fact, I’m like most of us, rooted in the way of our experience. Unlike the younger generation, who will gather information and use it as the Bible.,
Ben Hogan had disclosed his “secret” throughout the years of his articles and books, but golfers were still chasing after a “secret”.
There is no doubts, to do any atheletic move, one must involve the whole body, same as in martial arts , same as any sports.
What the quote from Ben Hoan meant with the “I wish I have two right arms” was more refined than just to use the whole body and power from the ground up.
As I had mentioned, this is involving the last move into the impact, after all the coil-up, starting from the ground up (push with the feet, hence he had an extra spike in his golf shoes). … The last rev into the impact by him and from my experience is the trailing side to give that little extra ( arm and hand being the last link of the involvement from the tailing side).
I’d learned this long ago, way before I had become a Hogan Fan. While witnessing an assitant golf professional taking on bets from fellow range rats. A couple of frequents at the driving range bet him that he could not reach the flag posted at 179 yards with an 8 iron ( mind you, this was in the early 80s, so the loft and length of that 8 iron was about the same as today’s 9 iron if not weaker )…
Randy took that bet and with some warm up , he calmly put the range ball over that flag and took the bet.
As he said “thank you gentlemen for the lunch”, one guy asked how could he do that… Randy answered, “because I know how to use my hands” .
This observation influenced my golf game from the beginning.
If you need a little octane to go a few yards longer, try to practice and learn how to use your trailing arm and hand at the right moment. That is the turbo boost for a little more distance as you are looking to gain a little more driver distance.

Harmon, Haney, Leadbetter, Como all great coaches. Here’s the funny thing about this game they all have formulated all different ways to get to the same place. Most of them will have their beliefs in THEIR system and think the other guys are full of it. If they didn’t, teaching would all be the same, wouldn’t matter who you went to. That’s how money is made. Just to repeat myself, they all have different methods to get to the same place. After my injuries, I went back to the drawing board, I had lost a tremendous amount of distance. I went back to my notes from 40 years ago. A lot of it was talking about weight transfer, I started working and lost more distance. This is when I began to break it down to minutia. My personal discovery had me go back to Hogan and Austin. For me, my philosophy changed, being older I truly had to figure out the engine of the swing. I was no longer a Ferrari, I was a diesel engine, I needed to really employ the hips and lower body, a proper turn allows me to wind up, Sequencing on the downswing, I finally figured out the lower body begins to unwind before I reach the pinnacle of my shoulder turn back, I pretty much just turn, Their is no dominant side for me. When I do share info with other seniors at the course it’s all about the turns, wind up and unwind. When I hit the ball (IMPACT), YES, I’m trying hit the ball with my right hand as hard as I can with my left hand holding on and the back of my left hand is going towards my target line. I truly don’t feel anything being dominant, Turning, not swaying, unwinding, not shifting any weight, I’m trying to transfer built up horsepower to that club head nothing else. That’s what I teach today. Especially for older players.

Same method may or may not work for everyone.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your golf game if you’re happy with it; same method or advice will not work for every golfer.
If you believe what you’re enjoying your golf game at your current level then so be it.
Not many will seek and accept assistence when they’re settled into their state of game. Especially those advice which came free of charge instead of $150-$200 per 30 minutes.

Well that was a pretty uncalled for slap! At one time I was a teaching professional. I actually went to school, passed the PAT with a score of 149 then gave up my dream to raise a family. Most Golf Professionals are NOT Scratch Golfers. They don’t get to play or practice that much, they are busy doing other things like catering to a membership. My foray into that was running outings & tournaments, running the cash register, Cleaning & putting carts away and plugging them in every nite… very few lessons (which is where you make your money) Locking up the Pro-Shop. I was lucky to be making $23K annually. Anywhere in there did you hear playing in the 6 months I gave that a whirl. It was a choice to give that up. I attained Am status back, I was able to play more and actually give lessons and get paid for it. Wanna know what we mostly taught? THE 5 MODERN FUNDAMENTALS as written by Mr. Hogan & Mr Wind. It’s a package usually of 5 lessons and a playing lesson. When the boys in the over 60 club at my course, began to notice that I have picked up not 10, not 20, not 30, not 40, but upwards of 50 yards on my Tee Balls… people kinda notice and begin to ask questions. Many of the boys would be happy just to gain 10-15 yards, I got a couple on the program to understand what the true engine of the swing is and when they hit a ball 210-220 off the tee instead of 180-190. They are very content. Doing it comes with work on their part, not mine. I just show them the slight change in philosophy of the turn, unwind and release, as opposed to thinking weight transference. Again, asking a question of which side is dominant is already confusing to anyone. You would tell me that Harmon might preach one thing and Leadbetter another? No how, no way! I appreciate the OP. The real question is, how does one get their possible 92% to 97% maximum force on every full swing into that clubhead at impact. I, as many others have, came to the conclusion, assuming grip is solid, address is solid and on line with a target, the engine of the swing is the lower body, and the hips turn as far they can without the right leg swaying off it’s address position and the shoulders and arms follow that, the second part of the swing, downswing is started by the process of you unwinding the hips the other way and that will begin to happen just before your shoulders and arms reach their pinnacle on the backswing. As the hips are already beginning to clear, the hands, arms and shoulders unwind transferring energy into the shaft and clubhead. The center of the body is very stationary until after impact when your finish should bring you on your left leg. I get what you are trying to say, I still don’t think that is the proper way to think about it. I would say: Is it the Lower Body and Hips giving the power on the downswing or is it the upper body Shoulders and Arms? The right side, nor left side have no influence on the turn. In the 90’s when Daly entered the scene, the dominant conversation was that of the X Factor, people like Daly who could turn 105*+ instead of 90*-94*. A proper turn back (wind-up) and turn back the opposite way (un-wind). It’s not a transference of weight by the body per se, it’s the transference of energy into that clubhead at impact of a golf ball. AND we all should be swinging as if the ball isn’t even there, it’s just something that gets in the way. Some guys, tee it high, some low, some play a ball towards the middle of a stance, others more to the front, To me, that’s what works for you…100 ways from Sunday to discuss those things.