More often than not anything over 4 hours is due to what’s happening in front of you.
1 Like
330 in a cart is about right. But if you put a walker on the course this adds 1 hourish to it. If you just figure the average time to hit and walk 430 is about right. 15 mins per hole and 10 mins of that is just walking.
Our group is a basically 4 guys well north of 60. They ride, I walk, but because I kinda hit it past them, (and we don’t play ready golf), we play using standard rulebook. I usually find my ball, check the lie, check the wind, check the GPS for distance, pull a club, do my basic 12sec routine and pull the trigger, and chase it again. We all do. But 10-12 minutes a hole is what it actually averages for us. AND we BS all the way down the FW and on the greens. But it’s mostly hit it, chase it, find it, hit it again…no rush either…BUT we go to our balls, we dont critique each others swing until after a hole is complete, we don’t congregate around 1 persons ball, AND worse…if ure 270 out on a par 5, and you only drove it 255…odds are hit it, you ain’t making the green in 2. I remember “The King’s” commercials…“while we’re young!” LOL! 3:20-3:40 is what it should take. WORSE thing our course ever did was put in Pace of Play clocks in the Carts on the Computers in the carts…it’s a neat amenity, but the POP is set at 4:15…It should be like it was in the old days, Dont let the group in front get more than 1 hole ahead, then you are out of position and need to pick up the pace!
1 Like
I played an all day Golfathon last year, teed off around 7 a.m. and finished at 7 pm, and played 126 holes, so averaged 18 holes every 1 hr 42 minutes for the 7 rounds I played that day… Some took longer because I had to wait on groups, and I took a few snack, bathroom, and Twitter breaks, but I played every shot with intent. The first few rounds were slower as it was cartpath only, but changed to 90 degree rule by the 3rd round once it dried up a bit. Played every set of tees at least once, and best round was a -3 from the tips in the final round.
There were some guys that were playing faster, but they were basically playing hockey once they got near the greens, and I think they wore out quicker and didn’t play as long.
If I’m walking by myself I will get done in 2.5 hours or less, and our normal foursome is around 3:30-3:45 (a bit more time on the greens with a few bucks on the line).
Walkers in general seem to play faster than riders. Carts CAN be much faster, but generally aren’t.
1 Like
I agree 100% walkers PLAY faster in general. Cart golfers socializing too much but the cart allows them to move from point to point faster.
1 Like
When I play…in between shots, I’m trying not to think about what I can screw up next. Walkers in general form a str8 line to their ball. We generally watch where our playing partners ball go. Good Shots usually get a “nice shot” quote. Poor ones get a chuckle and a needle. When we make a BIrdie, Eagle or Par…no whoops and hollers, just good hole…you’re up followed by usually a very friendly derogatory term. Or look, don’t make birdies if you can’t get up for your honors…LOL…all in fun. But, in general, it’s not about speed rounds, it’s about proper pace of play. People watch too much TV and emulate players…I just love the folks that emulate camillo villegas…
This can be avoided. I’ve been the walker in the group of three riding. You just need to pay attention, be ready to move when everyone has hit, and find creative ways to get to your ball. If I’m closest to the green, I’ll frequently walk outside the rough in the trees to get even with my ball. When everyone after me has hit, I’m generally no more than 30 seconds to my ball.
Same thing on the green. If you’re not the last guy in the hole, it’s a good idea to violate normal etiquette and start walking towards the next tee. If I’m on a course with a long walk between a green and the following tee, I’ve hooked a ride to the tee with the guy riding solo.
I’ve played rounds in 3:15 doing this. Walking alone, I comfortably play 18 in 2:25. Many years ago at Pinehurst, I played about 12 holes on No. 5 in a cart in about 40 minutes–but I was flying because it was a short day in February and I wanted to get in some more golf before dark. I specifically chose to go out on No. 5 because I knew there weren’t many golfers on the course and many of them had teed off hours earlier.
The Scots regularly play in groups of four walking, and a three-hour round is the norm over there. I can’t imagine anyone saying that they enjoy a round of golf where they have to wait on a lot of tees and fairways for the group in front to clear. I’ve found that you can start running into that phenomenon when the rounds stretch out to 4:30 or longer.
1 Like
My course has some severe elevation changes, and a few holes where the greens aren’t close to the next tees… if you play it smart walking, you can easily keep up with 2 guys in a cart… especially if those guys aren’t trying to move as fast as possible.
Honestly, I think the walking pace is about right for a course… you aren’t rushing every shot, have some time to think between each shot and get to see the course. If you are paying attention and move when you can, it’s easy to get around in 3 hours walking.
2 Likes
Hey, hey, hey… we old guys won’t be around that much longer 
1 Like
I play with two older guys and they make me hustle… they don’t sit idly by and have no problem moving while others are hitting…
If one guy didn’t stop to light a cigarette every hole is never have a prayer.
2 Likes
Interesting! We’re considering a system that will send messages to carts as soon as they fall a predetermined amount behind. It’ll let them know how much behind (or ahead) of pace they are. This will be in conjunction with a map that shows the golf shop exactly where each group is. I’m curious what happens with the PoP clocks at your course that leads you to this observation.
The PoP clocks are set at 4:15. Rangers on the course used to tell groups no more than 1 hole of daylight between groups. For instance my group, me as a walker and 3 riders we are a no nonsense group Hit, Chase, Find, Hit again. We play golf, it does not need to be at a turtle’s pace. We have seen as much as a 3 hole gap between us and the group behind us. Last week we got stuck behind a group on our 3rd 9 that had 4 holes open in front of them, but the PoP clocks said on time. Our 3rd nine today had a fairly open course in front of us. Teed off 12:10pm, In the clubhouse having lunch @ 1:45…Scores for the were 36, 39, 42 between the 3 of us. So I say it’s the worse thing, because PoP can be arbitrary…4:15 is a very slow round for many.
I’d say in that situation it’s more about allowing speedy groups like yours to play through as opposed to playing faster. 4:15 might be a bit too long, but if a group is meeting the standard then there’s nothing to complain about IMO. Might be playing a competitive match or be their only chance to get out and play during the week, so milking the time can be understandable.
Issue is the standard used to be no more than one hole of daylight between your group and the group in front of you you are out of position. Now you could have 3 holes open and still be in position. No Bueno! If you’ve ever ran a course,you will find that is what pisses players off. Especially if you are waiting every hole, Then you end up with 4 groups on any particular hole, then you get up on the group causing the backups and the music is blaring from a phone in their cart, drinking beers, cart girls come around and they are enjoying a hot dog BBQ. And then waving groups thru causes an even worse backup. The standard is keep your position no more than one hole of daylight. If you install that system I wish u luck Automated system really needs tweaking if it is to work properly.
Our course standard is 3:58. We have some groups that play faster; they’re encouraged to get the early tee times.
Standards are different everywhere. I marshaled at a course in California this winter where 4:30-4:40 was considered perfectly acceptable on weekends. This wouldn’t be tolerated at my home course…
I tell our PAs that an open hole is a red flag, but check circumstances. Is there a gap in the tee sheet? Is the group in front ahead of pace? If a group is on time we’re not going to ask them to speed up; we might ask them if they’d mind if the folks behind them played through.
It’s a juggling act trying to manage everyone’s expectations.
2 Likes
Lots of different things piss players off, including having a group of jackrabbits pressing them when they’re playing at a reasonable pace. Pace of play will always be a compromise between the fastest and the slowest. Having a PoP “clock” allows the rangers and the pro shop staff a specific tool to enforce a minimum standard. Of course a slower group should let you through, but you really don’t have a right to expect everyone to get out of your way, especially on your third 9 of the day.
YOUR standard may be to maintain your position, no matter how fast the group in front of you, but that’s not universal. I can understand why you’d be disappointed with the change in policy, because it affects you, but it may help the staff and the majority of golfers to enjoy themselves more.
2 Likes
Well we would agree then to disagree. Even though we are a muni, we have 200+players in our members association. I will tell you that PoP is the #2 bitch of the association having just completed our annual meeting. The #1 complaint is loss of membership loyalty tee times and it has become a free for all. With the advent of Covid tee times are at a premium, and the novice golfers coming to our course have no sense of etiquette, do not replace divots, we have geo-fense and they continually get their carts stuck on fairways trying to cross when they are told to stay on paths. It’s been an absolute nightmare because of the affordability of our course. We were the best kept secret until last year. Calling players that play this game jack rabbits because we play on average of 3.5 hours to 3.75 hours is an insult. When you have 4 groups on a par 3, because it is a very difficult hole, and it’s the 4th hole of everyone’s round is a problem for association members that have been playing here for decades. As a former ranger/starter and having been a former golf professional at 2 other public courses, the standard rule of keeping less than 1hole of daylight between you and the group in front of you is in keeping with proper pace of play. One group can cause a backup that can last up to 3 hours and exacerbate an issue as the group that has caused the issue might be on time, but the groups behind will be the ones experiencing 4.5 to 4.75 hour rounds.
I always skip groups when playing as a single and moving like a “jack rabbit”.
If the group in front is on pace, I don’t think it is fair to stay on their a** and try and play through.
Just easier on everyone
2 Likes
To be fair I haven’t played as a single in like 15 years. I’ve mostly blast the range and practice facility when I’m on my own. Playing in a 2 some we won’t press anyone, BUT once you get a 2-3 group back up on just 1 hole it’s just math. Takes each group approximately 10-12 minutes to play a hole. 3.75 hours becomes 4.7 hours just like that. That’s why keeping within reason of the group in front of you is of utmost importance. 2-3 holes out and not paying attention to your surroundings is an issue. You now get 2 minutes to find a “lost ball” So 2-3 lost balls by folks that can’t keep it on the planet on one or 2 holes in a row, and spending 5-7:minutes in the flora and fauna searching and finding 6 other balls other than your own. I hope you all are seeing what I’m saying here causes an issue. The woods shouldn’t be considered an alternative to Dicks Sporting Goods. I blow one off the map, which we all do, I give it a glance, it went OB I play a provisional or drop quickly moving forward.