Then you don’t want to see #18 on this course 
par 5 dogleg left, trees too high to cut the corner. Hit tee shot about 180-190 to the corner, then have 240 to the green from there. Gotta love holes where your second shot is longer than your first.
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Nice to hear there are other courses like mine. Our #3 is a par 5 dogleg left. From whites it can be 180 to 230 to get a look around the corner, but then you have 240-280 in. For a weakling like me I usually hit driver or fairway and then bunt a 6i or hybrid down the fairway. It’s not worth trying to hit it farther unless you can reach front edge of green as there’s just not many good lies to be had.
Going over the trees is only possible for a true 300 yard hitter and it’s risky so it’s really only tried in scrambles. Left is OB and the fairway is narrow so if you happen to clear the trees you may just be pitching back to fairway.
We have 5 doglegs that are definitely risk reward. Even the big hitters don’t risk it that often because you have to be so precise that it’s not worth it. Plus most have OB which is obviously a big penalty. Tournaments mean re-tee is required; you can’t drop for 2 stroke penalty. We see some really big #'s in tournaments especially when it’s windy lol.
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You are correct.
Ball forward moves path out to in. Moving back moves path in to out.
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Think we might be saying the same thing.
I certainly try to “think” about maintaining an in to out pattern with a forward ball position: ‘hammer the nail in at low 3:30-4:00 on the ball’.
I’m just not all that sure it happens…
[Grabs 5W and tees]. We can certainly test that theory…
I’m just teasing. That sounds like a very “unique” hole. Tell me it’s also impossible to play a low runner into the green too, while we’re at it…
Oh, not only that, but you actually have to hit OVER a group of 30 ft tall pine trees to get to the hole.
The tee is back in a chute of trees at the red dot. Yellow dot layup is about 190 off tee and you have about 240-250 to green from there. Theoretically you could sling a fade around the trees with a 3 wood, but left or long is OB and if it goes into the group of trees that sits IN FRONT OF THE GREEN, it’s no easy chip out either. Maybe the worst designed hole I’ve ever seen, and believe it or not, it was ‘improved’ about 15-20 years ago. The fairway used to slope away from the dogleg, at least you can actually hold the fairway now.
But I’m holding out hope…a lot of pine trees around here are dying of some disease and this bunch is not looking so healthy. I am rooting for their quick demise.
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Have you tried playing this hole from the hole shown below it? Just knock it in the other fairway and call it a day.
Holy crap. And this is a par 4!? With a green dog-legging away from the approach shot? LOL.
Yeah, that looks like a canyon of trees in that overhead. And the required approach angle with the tree right there blocking the immediate front of the green…whew.
So, you’re supposed to smack a booming draw, but not a big hook ('cos OB). Then turn right around and stick a long high cut on a green that I just bet is pretty hidden for your second. Ok…sure.
They probably have the balls (which go hand in hand with ignorance in my experience, if you’ll pardon the mixed metaphor) to claim that it’s an “inspired test of shotmaking” or some similar twaddle.
Neat experience; I’m glad you shared it. Bet it’s fun when you birdie it though. Like beating that one boss.
Funny thing that I just realized I forgot to mentioned about that first dogleg right hole, a favorite design feature, the internal out-of-bounds. I suppose it’s meant to discourage you from trying to cut the corner, but in this case it’s kind of pointless since you’re already in jail if you miss it to the right of the trees. Everyone in our league, and I think most people who play the course choose to ignore the white stakes on the right side 
This is inspiring me to create a new thread of course architecture features you love or hate.
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All three of those holes are proper 3 shotters, with my limited shot making abilities.
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Yep, same here. Play for a ‘5’ and get out of Dodge.
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I’m probably going to start a s*** storm by saying this, but here goes. Fawcett does not directly address forced trajectory shots. My guess is that he would drop his ‘stock’ shot in a heartbeat if he needed to go around/under trees, basically a “recovery” shot. In this case, you’ve essentially got a “recovery” shot from the box. Play it as such. Your choices are basically a) learn a 3W fade or b) lay up short.
To be clear, I’m not questioning Fawcett‘s wisdom of playing your ‘stock’ shot most of the time. But I also see wisdom in Adam Young’s teachings in developing at least functional differential abilities. No, doubt we should play our ‘stock’ shot shape when practical but should be capable of hitting functional opposite shots when advantageous.
Course architects design tests of golf skill, not necessarily exclusively one shot shape; that variety is the beauty of our sport.
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Ya I think you take the medicine. From my perspective, it would be a question of how often I would be successful. Do I think 7-8 times out of 10 I can accomplish the shot? And if I don’t, what’s the penalty?
Golf is about damage control. A birdie makes up for a bogey but it doesn’t make up for a triple. I’m looking to give myself the par putt at worst, and if I happen to hit the green from 170+, maybe I roll one in for birdie. Either way, I’m gaining strokes on the collective group of golfers playing that hole throughout the year.
Now, there’s also potential I’m just absolutely feeling it one day and go for it. That’s the beauty of sports. Sometimes, momentum carries us to take risks the statistics would advise against. Good luck!
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You make a good point.
Don’t disagree. The math changes quite a bit if we change ob to something more manageable though when trying to create some shotmaking
The ob is just so penal on a double cross
I think the main decade mantra is that changing your shot shape leads to a higher number of double crosses which are typically pretty damaging to scores
Yup. My understanding is that the overall goal of DECADE is elimination of double bogeys or worse. If we’re trying to hit shots we don’t feel comfortable with, does that support that goal in the long run or hurt it?
If the space between OB is 40 yards wide, it could possibly be the right play to hit a 6 iron off the tee even though we all hate doing that. But playing for an easy bogey is likely to work out better than hoping for the perfect shots for a birdie or par.
Two points I’d like to emphasize. 1) The mental approach to holes like this should be: “This is a ‘rescue’ shot for me. Rescue rules apply. Objective should be to get to a playable spot. Just like any other ‘rescue’ situation.“ For example say I’m under trees I can’t go over. Only options are under, around or out. Objective: get out of the trees to a playable spot. Play it that way, even from the tee.
2) important to have a functional opposite shape in your arsenal.
When I say functional, I don’t mean perfect. Driver shaping is very difficult (risky) for us (and should be avoided) but 3W-iron shaping should be attainable to some extent. Again, not pretty, but functional. For example, my opposite with 3W can be anything from dead straight to 50y offline, may not be in fairway but probably in a playable spot; all I’m trying to accomplish with a rescue situation.
Hope this helps!
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That is a good way to think about this I think.
A good strategy, though his comment about how Tiger “left some shots on the course” because he chose not to play driver “as much as he could” …Really?? Tiger as a player knew his misses (hooking drives), and knew how to strategize to work around them better than anyone, including Mr. Fawcett. He never used driver at The Open in 2006 but once in the final round, and won.
If someone has the distance of a tour golfer, they may never take out their driver at the average golf courses.
Jack Nicklaus intentionally tee off with shorter clubs at practice rounds at home course to leave longer distance to the green for practicing the shots needed for the next tournament.
He is also the one who will not practice or touch his golf clubs during the off season, so he could get rested physically and mentally, and to spend more time with his family. Perhaps this is why he could still play great golf into his late 50s.
Unlike the young golfers these days, trying to bite off more than they could chew. Injuries are imminent when ordinary human trying to be Superman.