He also hit one on 13 too… how’d that work out. I don’t know how wet or humid the course was playing either. Ever been to Augusta? I have…you don’t know what you are talking about on 10 or 13…I’m telling you the play. Unless you are striping the Driver, 3W is the play on those 2 holes. There is no advantage on 10 because of the chute on 10, 3W will go farther than driver to the flat. 13…unless you can turn the Dr as a rightie spot on 3W avoids the crap on the right hits the turn off the trees and leaves a 5i in when it’s not wet. Now if Ure a leftie, 13 is a Driver play, 10 is no advantage either way because of the chute 240 out… Don’t listen to me, listen to Bernhard, what the heck does he know right? He’s only won it a couple times. And don’t give me DECADE either, you play to the best advantage the course design gives you. https://www.golfmonthly.com/tour/us-masters/augusta-hole-by-hole/bernhard-langer-augusta-national-course-guide-hole-10-49558
Circling back to the origin of this debate, you’re not arguing against DECADE with that statement. DECADE doesn’t say hit driver every single time. It says (in short) play to the best advantage. Data has shown that the best advantage is driver much more of the time than traditionally thought, especially for most amateurs. Not on every hole on every course and not for every golfer, but at the very least everyone should at least check their preconceived notions about where they “can’t” hit driver and check to see if their data (not pro data, their own data) backs that up. If it does, great. Pull the three wood or iron out of the bag on the tee more confidently. If the data doesn’t back up the assumption though, then the golfer is leaving strokes out on the course.
That’s what this is all about, challenging assumptions to make sure they are true. I don’t think that’s something that can really be argued against.
Finally someone that gets it! Right, I’ve said this countless times since I posted on your forums here. Either people don’t understand it, or don’t get it. It’s NOT hitting driver every chance you get!
I feel as though this thread is going in circles at this point. There seems to be a disagreement, or things aren’t being communicated clearly. Either way, I’m not sure it’s serving a constructive purpose. I won’t moderate because I don’t think anyone has crossed the line, but am not sure how helpful this has become.
BTW, my data (and I have 30+ years worth) tells me to play to where I can get a full lofted club on the ball. I hit lofted clubs predominantly on line more than 95% of the time. Distance control is issue, depends on grass, FW, rough, moisture, wind, humidity. Alot on distance control. BUT, I’m going to assume players know what this means, I practiced alot on flighting lofted clubs, not a few balls here or there, thousands of practice shots, I will eat most amateurs, like regular people’s lunch…when I play with people I don’t know, and I’m playing a wedge from like 110, I’ll hit and I hear them say long and I go watch…and I spin it back, they go how do you do that? And I laugh. First you have to not be afraid to be aggressive. You gotta hit it past. Most normal players I play with DO NOT take enuff club on their approaches and leave it short. And short by alot! I am a huge proponent of aggressive play when the opportunity is there. Which first means knowing the course and knowing the greens, Wanna have fun one day…take an extra club on all your approaches if you are like a 8-or more handicap…per se! That’s how you score! Hitting the approaches reasonably str8 helps too
The other part of this is that driver should be the “default”, the choice to make unless there’s a specific reason to hit something shorter. So yes, you need to understand the golf course, and understand your own dispersion pattern, and make the right choice.
I just posted what I was taught to believe about scoring. It’s all about short game. Forget everything else, how many times do you find you are less than pin high with your approaches let alone past. I struggle more with back pins than anything because there is no room for error. Look I saw a vid interview with Fawcett where he said he got into a heated debate with Faxon who is/was the best flat stick on the planet about why he missed putts. Scott said cause u’re not aggressive enough. Heated argument, but data showed like over 95% of Faxs missed putts were short. I agree completely. First I agree send it when it makes sense, for me personally, I need FedEx to send it now, but I do when I feel it’s to my advantage. Getting a full lofted club in my hands is where I’m going to score because I will send it. I play to yardages letting the pin get in the way. I’d rather be 20ft past a front pin than 20ft short. Most higher handicap players aren’t aggressive enough with short game, putting or pitching, Are your 3 ftrs hitting the back of the cup or trickling in the front…When someone argues with me I’m not practicing “gimmes”, I laugh, when I see them barely roll it in instead of hitting the stick or back of the cup squarely. That’s where I score or lose score…follow me
I’m sorry to say this, but this is just wrong. And exactly why I posted this article in the first place. What you were taught and what has been figured out are two different things. We are beating this horse to death on this post 
He hit a bad one but that wasn’t why he made an 8. He dumped an 80 yd wedge in the water and then an even shorter one (off a perfectly flat lie) about 40 ft past the hole. It was a very timely sequence showing that their wedge games are not as perfect as you think,
I have been there and I do know what I am talking about and, most importantly, the guys who are there right now and competing really know what they are doing and turns out they are doing something different than you are suggesting they do. I looked at the top 10 guys and all their tee shots on 13 and 23 out of 30 of them hit drivers. Seems odd that the guys who are playing the best at the Masters would be employing such a poor strategy. Or, maybe…
Look in my mind people are attacking me. What the data shows is that people are not as aggressive with approaches and putts, Nostalgia says be aggressive with putts and pitches. Data shows that. Someone says to me I’m not practicing 3 ftrs because that’s not where scoring is, I’m going to vehemently disagree when they can only make 70% of them because they aren’t banging them into the back of the cup when they can and maybe increase their make rate to 90%. Like a missed 3ft doesn’t count? And people believe that…Do you disagree? I’ve asked several people who work Scotts model and all that’s talked about is tee shots, like that’s the be all end all. Well if you’re 30 ft short with your approaches and can’t jar 3ftrs because your not taking that aggressive approach to the rest of the game…I know I have played with enough players that are just mid to higher handicap players and 90% of their misses are short, short wedge, short mid iron, short putts. Do you disagree…?
Well you keep saying things like this that are incorrect. Hitting these putts harder will not increase the make rate for most golfers because they are making the hole smaller.
There are tons of things in golf that are open to interpretation, but others are not. So when you say scoring is all about the short game I have to step in and say something because it’s just not true.
This is also incorrect. Scott’s system does not only talk about tee shots. I’m not trying to attack you, but when you say something like that I am going to correct you.
Given that he spends a lot of time arguing that players need to learn to leave a lot more putts short, I suspect that this, too, is another thing about his system and philosophy that you have completely wrong.
I give up! I did not say Scotts model, I said people here who are employing Scotts model seem to be only talking tee balls. AND I said hit the back of the cup, I did not say hitting it harder, like I’m suggesting hit a 3ft putt 10 ft past. Big difference trickling a 3ft in than hitting aggressively enough that it would go 18-24 inches past the cup. So you also disagree that most mid to high hdcp players don’t leave approaches short?
I think I’m done - we keep going in the same circle. You say something, I disagree with it and then you tell me I’m not understanding you. Let’s just leave it.
You are disagreeing and that’s fine, but you fail to answer my question. Look, you don’t want to take my word on short putts, read this https://golf.com/instruction/putting/low-handicaps-reveal-their-secret-to-making-short-putts/ PGA pros make over 99% of 3ft putts, mid to high handicap players make 66%. That’s data, that’s a fact. A gentleman on here told me word for word he’s not practicing 3ft gimmes like that’s not a stroke. What are we promoting here? I’m telling you it’s a fact that 90% of mid to high hdcp players leave approaches short and short by alot, that’s data, that’s a fact and you think that’s something to disagree with? I’m just trying to see what we are promoting here? Just trying to be real… here’s your own article: https://practical-golf.com/youre-not-going-to-hit-it-long/#:~:text=He%20said%20that%2094%%20of,shots%20short%20of%20the%20green.&text=3)%20We%20don’t%20have,a%20GPS%20or%20Rangefinder!) Now I’m done!
@jon @CoryO @papageorgio thanks for the replies. Interestingly, Frank Nobilo on the cbs broadcast today was saying the same thing about #3… basically, “Old school says to lay up to a full swing yardage, new school says (backed by data) to get as close to the green as possible.”
I think it was while Connors and Zalatorios were putting.
If you’re referring to me, I said I’m not going to practice tap ins. 3 footers are definitely not tap ins.
Also if you’re making 66% of putts from any distance - be it six inches or six feet - you should practice that distance. However, its a waste of time to be practicing putts you’ll make 99% of the time (which for almost everyone 1-foot tap ins are).
Interesting that no one lays up at 13 or 15 (assuming good lie, unimpeded by trees, etc) if they have less than 220
They clearly would rather be long and chipping down hill to try and get up and down rather than “hitting a number” like 75 yards over the water
V different for an amateur with that water penalty in play (we are leas confident with 4 iron trying to carry a hazard) but it illustrates the point
I didn’t say anything about laying up other than I’d like a fuller shot I could spin rather than being too close and not being able to control it. #3 at augusta is an example. Most, not all of the pars today were from playing to a fuller shot as compared to trying to hold that green with anything down in the 30-40 yd range, it’s just a tough hole. As far as anything else, I still say having been there and seeing #10 that hole 3W is the proper play, or anything that gets you in the chute there. It’s not a layup at all. #13 it’s a choice of what you can swoop. Trying to fade a driver there is tuff, 3W still puts a 5i 2nd in your hands.