Don't Let Nostalgia Hold You Back

@here - I think this is a wonderful discussion. Perhaps I’ve missed it on other threads or research shown, but let me move the focus from the driver and ask about fairway shots. Is there valid data on hitting a longer iron closer to the green (without bringing in very high risk of trouble) vs laying up to a “comfortable” full swing distance? I’m not a long hitter so I rarely hit a part 5 in two and play some of my course’s par 4’s as 3 shot greens if the tees are back and conditions are playing longer.
I often wonder if I should hit the longest club I can (ie…4 hybrid or 5 iron)…or lay back to a full swing wedge/short iron distance.
Would love to hear any research @jon @CoryO and any opinions as well.

I’ve found that I do better from 30 yards than from 50, better from 50 than from 70, better from 70 than 90 (which is a full-swing lob wedge for me). I didn’t always take this approach, and I was a little uncomfortable when I first faced partial wedge shots on the course, but I’m now pretty accustomed to it. As you say, there certainly are situations when laying back is the better choice, perhaps to avoid trouble from bunkers or water or terrain issues, or to leave a full-swing shot you can spin more. And if you truly struggle with partial shots, that’s something that you should practice to improve.

2 Likes

The data is pretty clear on this. Lay up to as close a yardage as you can without taking on excessive risk (hazards, difficult bunkers)

Your “worst” shot from 40 yards will almost always be closer to the hole than your “worst” from 100. I used to avoid those yardages because I hated awkward wedge distances, but if you intentionally avoid them you are inevitably costing yourself more strokes.

3 Likes

Jon and others have covered it, but I’ll say this is another area I’ve become a convert in over the past year. Used to avoid half wedges like the plague (and may have even argued for this preference here/elsewhere), but this past season has proven to me that the play is to get it as close to the hole as possible within reasonable risk (that’s always the tricky part).

1 Like

See I would rather hit to a distance which is like 80 yds for me. I can impart some controlled spin on the ball. If the greens are super soft where in you can lob a 40 yd by all means get it close, but if I had to play a pitch from like 30-40 yds and I can’t control the ball on a medium hard green, I just don’t see an advantage. Again, my playing partners try to get it as close as they can but their distance control on those short pitches over the rounds costs them strokes. I’m so used to dialing in a spinny 54 or 60 from 70-80, flighted down, I get really upset with myself if I have more than a 15ft putt and that’s a mishit. I mean I’m usually 10 ft either way so that’s a full 20ft circle I’m playing to.

So basically you’re better than a pga tour pro from 80 yards…

2 Likes

Everyone keeps saying that. Let me ask you a serious question, What was the first thing you learned playing this game. Seriously. Did you take lessons? I was a PGA professional for 4 years.

The first thing I learned was course management and patience. My teachers taught me from 3ft away from a hole first. I didNOT take a full swing with an iron for 2 months when I learned let alone a persimmon wood. My teachers stressed putting and short game. To this day, I practice flighted wedges, Not too many people even know how to execute those shots. Control with your short game is everything. You have to know what your strengths are, A good 70-75% of this game is short game, Have you devoted 85% of your practice to short game? Well I have, thousands and thousands of balls over 35 years. At best you might only get to swing a dumb ass driver 9 times a round. You will hit 25-30 lofted clubs…Do the math. You can’t score with a Driver, you can only set yourself up for a possibility with one. BTW you are only looking at stats on probably the hardest possible setups in the world for these guys. Have you ever played a round with a high end pro with nothing on the line, just a regular Sunday setup. Let me tell you something those bastards can drop it on a dime. I played a round with Slu, in Rochester on a Regular course when he was at the top of his powers, he shot 58, like it was nothing and we were throwing down some beers and he was just messing around. So know what you are talking about…

Parroting a lot of what has been said… do not avoid yardages… if it is wide open get as close as you can

BUT

No excessive risk… lots of holes are designed to bring trouble into play around 50 yards and in on par 5’s. Also I am a lot more wild with 3 wood, so if I can hit hybrid inside 75 - 50 yards, I am not pulling out 3 wood to try and get the extra 25-35 yards unless the hole is WIDE open

Also if my lie is sketchy at all, I hit an iron

Lol dumbass drivers? Seriously?

PGA pros play extremely tough setups, but that’s mostly due to length and pin positions. From 80 yards in the fairway they are more often than not taking dead aim or close to dead aim, and they won’t have an issue getting the ball to stop near their landing spot. PGA tour average from 75-100 yards in the fairway last year was 17’ 7”. From 80 yards in the fairway 45% of their shots finish outside of 15-feet.

It’s useless reasoning with people like you. Did you not read what I wrote or said. I don’t know know what kind of setups you play, You have know freaking clue how good these guys are. If an LPGA pro came out with you on your home course just fooling around, they’d be dropping darts on you to like 4ft with wedge in hand. You have no idea, you really don’t. Get off the PGA tour stat site. On a Sunday setup at you home course from the tees you play they’d eat it alive. They are that good, way way better than me on a 20ft circle at your local Muni you are playing. I’m just a regular schmo compared to them, it’s more than pins and setups. Gosh you guys have no idea. I’ll give you a clue, I played Merion, the day after the open In 2013. At that time I was playing to a 4.3. I was pretty good…I shot 126. I enjoyed the privilege but let me tell you something, take your home course, toughest set up and multiply it times 5, that’s how hard the supers make those golf courses. They are playing at 7300 yds plus. You don’t know what you are talking about. They don’t take dead aim, they play to areas, I can’t be any more blunt. Yes how many times do you hit Driver, how many times times do you hit a lofted club, it’s math, do the math!

I’ll listen to the people like Scott Fawcett and Lou Stagner who actually work with tour players thank you very much.

Also, taking dead aim just means cantering your shot pattern at the pin.

Feel free, ask fawcett how difficult a PGA set up is? He played on tour he barely broke 79. Listen all you want, he’ll tell you short game is everything…if it wasn’t, Kyle berkshire or Jamie sadlowski would be the best players on the planet. You keep quoting tour stats. The touring pros on a regular course are way better than 17 ft…I’ve played with many…they will hand u your lunch with a coke and smile.

He definitely wouldn’t say short game is everything - you say stuff like this and still have the audacity to tell me I’m clueless lol.

Of course tour pros would destroy me but that’s because I’m missing the green half the time from 75-100.

What do you think you would average from 6000 yards? Because if you’re as good as you say with your wedges, you should have zero issue averaging under 70 so long as you keep the ball in play and aren’t a horrific putter.

Ok boys

Take your pants off

I am going to get a ruler

4 Likes

My man…ball striking, and putting is the game…what are you talking about…ask him he’s on here. You can’t score for shite with a driver…it putting and short game. The short game gets you proximity to the hole, They give you 35-36 putts a round. If you hit every GIR 1/2 the game is with a putter…HALF! I don’t know who you are or what you play to. But you cannot score with just a driver. At best you’re only needing to hit it 9 times a round. You will hit u’re putter 3x more than that and lofted clubs 2.3x more than that. It’s math, practice the clubs u are going to hit most if you want to get good

If u are missing the greens 1/2 the time with a wedge in hand I think you know what you need to work on. Fawcett would 100% tell you that short game is everything. You are missing probably 8-12 greens a round. That’s how you score

Our home course can play 6200 yds, I am a 6 hdcp right now because my short game is that good, I drop shots due to a very mediocre chipping game and a very mediocre long game, but it’s good enuff to slop it around to shoot 74-78:with my eyes closed

I average about 7 GIR per round, so yes I miss about 11 per round. I am about a 9-HDCP and thus give away shots in every aspect of the game. My strokes gained breakdown (relative to scratch) last year was roughly -1.6 driving, -4.0 approach (outside 100), -1.8 short game (inside 100), and -2.1 putting.

Mark Broadie’s work shows that for at every level the breakdown on average is 25% driving, 40% approach, 20% short game, and 15% putting. This site has a recent article on that as well.

I think we need to cool things down a bit on this thread. No need to get personal about anything, just golf. In the end, everyone needs to play their own game the way they want to and feel comfortable playing it. If you’re looking for improvement, that’s where you experiment and try different things. Something might work for some, but not for others. Everyone can always improve!

2 Likes