I watch videos of pro golfers, a lot of them seem to have the heel of the club down with the toe of the club elevated when they swing - I was taught to have the club bottom flat or parallel with the ground. Being a beginner, can you experienced golfers enlighten me, what do you do and why or when?
I’d be careful with this, there is no right answer. What’s more important is how the club is oriented at impact rather than setup. You want it as flat to the ground as possible, which is largely determined by your lie angle.
This will explain more
Thanks! Lie Angle is one of the MANY golf terms I’m not familiar with yet! Learning is fun.
It’s perhaps the most important spec on your equipment to get right (on irons and wedges). But don’t worry about it too much just yet if you’re a beginner - welcome to the community!
Yeah… be careful watching on TV as the camera angles can introduce POV variables. In a recent lesson my instructor told me the club should be soled flat at address, and preferably should be oriented the same … flat … at impact - so as to maximize the amount of club face presented to the ball … ie. more solid … and hopefully centered … contact leads to more ball speed leads to more distance
This is another place where fitting is important. You can look at online tools and charts that take into account your height and wrist to floor distance, but they can’t take into account how you actually address/impact the ball. By the charts, I should be a degree flat, but I have a very upright stance, so my sole is flat at a standard lie angle instead.
@jon is 100% correct, what matters is the lie angle at impact, and his article explains pretty clearly what can happen if its off. If you watch down-the-line video of good players, you’ll see that many (not all) of them will have their hands higher at impact than they did at address. No need to go into the reasons for this to happen, but the effect of higher hands is to change the angle of the club from address to impact. Those players do need to have the toe slightly up at address, if its going to be flat at impact.
Ahh … the wrist supination that Hogan - I believe? - introduced into the mainstream in “5 Lessons”
I don’t think of wrists at all, actually. What I refer to is the rotation of the shoulders, so that at impact the chest is open, and the left shoulder has rotated up and away from the ball. To get the clubface on the ball, the left arm and club shaft have to be in a much straighter alignment than at address, so the hands are higher than at address.
The secret is in the dirt. Some smart feller said that (Hogan). Divots tell all. Look closely at your divot, if one side is deeper than the other, your lie angle is off for your swing. Last fitting I had, the pro put down a plexiglass-like plate thingy and had me make a few strikes. He looked at the marks on the sole to determine what LA I needed, but we also saw same thing looking closely at the divots.
Exception: I always chip with the toe slightly down (shaft more upright) for better contact.
Oh, yes, the other exception is bunker shots, just the opposite: stand further away from the ball, shaft is flatter, toe not really up, more like wide open.
Ok, one more exception is fairway bunker shots. Feet closer together, stand really tall. Shaft will be slightly upright therefore toe just a hair down. Again, for better contact.
So, always flat, except sometimes.
Hope this helps!
I’ve resigned myself to the lie angle that I have
On driver, I am very “toe up” at impact, which will have the effect of creating pull or draw bias into your swing.
On irons, I’m the opposite, very “toe down” at impact, which has the opposite effect, introducing push or fade bias into your swing.
It’s yet another swing fault that requires compensation in my swing
ha love it!
FWIW a few different pros have told me for irons … for all normal shots … flat is preferred - provides the best face / sweet spot contact.
Just to give some clarity here, the idea of using a lie board (plexiglass) and reading of divots has been disproved (somewhat) by modern launch monitors.
Unfortunately, lie boards can lie. The best way to really determine how your club is interacting with the ground is using a camera-based launch monitor like the Foresight GC2 or GCQuad. For optimal results on most shots, you’re going to want the club to be level to the playing surface. That’s what have the right lie angle is so important for irons. If you club is too upright or too flat, it will affect your accuracy. Most clubfitters have abandoned used the lie board at this point so I’d take that information with a grain of salt.
One other thing to know about lie angle. The higher the loft, the more influence it will have. So while modern drivers are probably a little too upright for golfers, it’s not the end of the world. Now let’s say your wedges were way too upright, then you’ve got a much bigger problem!
As I feared, I’m dating myself again! Ashamed to say it, last fitting was many years ago.
Thanks for the correction!
No problem, that’s what this place is here for! Information changes over the years, and I’m sure there will be things we’re saying now that need to be re-examined a decade from now.