I didn’t want people switching every week, so whatever tees you played the first night you had to play all year. If you qualified to play the white tees, you had to play them the first night or you were on the blues for that season.
For handicaps, we used the rating and slope to compute a course handicap. Just like GHIN except we use the best 3 of the last 5 scores instead of 8/20.
For that reason, a few golf courses only employ the “member’s tee” during the off season. A couple of the golf courses will remove the back sets of tees during wet season.
Totally agree! Especially courses that have what I call “tee character”; holes that look completely different from different boxes, not just way longer.
My ‘regulars’ all play men’s/seniors’ but if we get paired up, I always play from the stray’s box (well, except on those 260y forced carries). Not only polite but refreshingly different experience. So what if I’m playing my third from 50y out, it’s all hits&giggles, right? I simply adjust my expectations and work on wedges & putting. Hey, at 69 I’m just grateful to play.
Half the guys I golf with will card similar score whether from the men’s tee or from the blue tees ( the champions tee will need to i.d. an index of 10 or better to be able to tee off on the back ).
For most of us, teeing off from the forward tee makes it boring as you said it does not matter if the approach is from within 100 yards, we still need to putt the golf ball into the cup.
Along with a few other guys, we’d join the forward tee players someday just to sharpen our iron/hybrid play. To make it more interesting, we’ll select a club which will give everyone about the same distance for the approach shot. Imagine playing the game of skins with that concept?
Here’s something else to chew on. I’m certain we remember when Tiger hit the scene, and for some real old fogies when Jack hit the scene. It’s not that when they hit the scene they were obscenely long, there’s always obscenely long hitters a golf ball, they were ridiculously strait. That is a deadly combination. So let’s go back to 97 at Augusta, I attended the Masters in 92… there was no rough, the course was built for speed, BUT, like on 13 and 15… it was Driver, mid-iron or lofted wood. Tiger…was Driver 9i or 8i. For a pro or for that matter anyone, that is a distinct advantage. See if this makes sense… on a 400-415 yd hole, if I stripe one…255+ish… that leaves me 150ish Center carry for me is like 7-8-9 iron depending, but not more than that. My partners have to move up to even get close to that. Although you can really help your scoring if you are hitting lofted clubs into greens, I don’t believe the sport was meant to be played that way. Hitting alot of different clubs, having to stripe a 4i from 195 is a skill that is required. I just believe in evening out the playing field… either they move up on a couple holes or I move back… (NOT TALKING ABOUT CLUB TOURNAMENTS HERE)… I will tell you Augusta, to combat Tiger, (now everyone is Tiger) grew a bit of rough, just enough to mess with them, Augusta lengthened the course, yes it put some people out, but they want them hitting certain clubs into certain greens in benign conditions. I mean I got to play on Sunday… it was cold and blowing… 9th hole 385 into a 35mph wind, it was cold, I hit Driver and had 180 in hit 3w over water all carry to green side bunker pin high, got up and down for par. By the time we got to the 18th into the same wind, I said to the group lets move up to red tees… everyone said yeaman! I was still the only one who drove over the water, hit a knockdown 6iron just short, chipped to 8ft and finally made a putt for par… I might use my Driver 4-5 times on any course and that’s alot, I hit hybrids, long irons and fw woods alot, in an attempt to hit to a specific approach distance. Today’s architecture, I think they want to keep the game fun, there’s a reason they have 4 or 5 tee boxes out there. It’s also fun to use them too. Drivable par 4s can present just as much danger as a straightforward 415yd hole.
Drivable par-4s are gaining a stroke on a field that can’t drive the hole. Ditto Par-5s that you can get to in two, but no one else can.
The greater distance than peers is a double whammy. First, you’re closer to the hole and a given degree of dispersion means a tighter spread if you’re closer. Second, closer to the hole means using a shorter club, which is itself easier to hit. Easier to hit equals tinier degree of dispersion to begin with. So smaller angular dispersion gets coupled with a shorter distance that angle distends = a whole lot closer to the pin.
And since Tiger was probably the finest medium to long iron player of the last 40 years…he got a LOT of birdie looks.
Yes. Tiger’s secret sauce of his greatest differentiation was on shots gained on approach which is primarily 125-250 yards out. He was a total outlier on that stat.
Your are right.
However, having the advantage of longer distance in golf will definitely give you more option. Having more option will usually lower the score.
All the great names in golf history all had longer distance than their peer. Even with the smaller framed Bobby Jones and Ben Hogan, both ranked one of the longer hitter within their peer.
The quote of drive for show and putt for dough only apply to the very elite golfers. For the average Joe, distance always trump everything else in this game.
The sales category from golf equipment will testify.
Doesn’t even really apply to them. Guys like Loren Roberts, Stan Utley, D.A. Weibring all have had “Boss of the Moss” from time to time. Their expertise at putting and short game doesn’t translate much to wins though.
Where putting and short game really help those guys out—and I’m stealing from a comment Monte Scheinblum made—is when everyone’s ballstriking is about the same during a given tourney. Then, the guy putting better takes home the money, right Cam Smith?
That winner needs to be in the upper tier of ballstriking before that matters though.
Sure.
However, everyone who made it to the Tour all know how to advance the golf ball pretty well. The difference is maybe one would use a 7 iron and the next guy would use a 6 to cover the same distance.
With today’s golf ball, unless one is extremely short off the tee, the professionals are pretty even.
Cam Smith’s putting performance on the last day of the Open was the proof.
However, if a weekend warrior whose average driving distance is 220 and the next guy is 260; you know the math. especially playing off the tees longer than 6,400 yards.
The super senior needing help on the putting surface because their vision and their nerves were tired. So they’ll need help on both the distance and the short game.
People say, seniors have a better short game, wrong, it’s only because their long game had deteriorated so the short game skill stood out.
Just like the general conception of most the foreign students are good with the mathematics subjects; wrong again, it’s only because their inability to master the second language made their skill with the math subjects stood out.
If I have the choice of regaining the driving distance 25 yards; vs. dropping 90% of every putt within 8’. I’d opt for longer driving distance.
why?
Because using shorter irons into the green will give me better chance for minimum numbers of putts required to drop the ball into the cup.
Again, if you look at todays architecture, they have multiple sets of tees. You have to ask yourself: Why is that? I know my limits for distance to try and have fun… If you really want to just have fun…don’t keep score! I mean today, we see Par 4s at 500 yds now… well for me that’s a smashed driver, a solid 3w and probably a short wedge. If you’re not keeping score, and just playing golf, it’s fun. It’s only when you put achieving numbers on a scorecard does it become NOT FUN. It becomes an ego thing, What they should do is change the pars on the scorecard for handicaps… I mean what’s wrong with a Par 6? What’s wrong with a person that can only hit the ball 180, make the 425 yd Par 4 a Par 5. I know handicap is what’s supposed to be the difference, but from a mental standpoint if Par is 82 for you, then that’s what it is. I mean #3 at Augusta (I use Augusta alot, because I believe it is the perfect layout) for alot of these guys is driveable today, here’s the rub… They can play it anywhere from 310 to 350… Scoring average was over par last year, Bobby Jones had called it the Perfect Golf hole, It’s one of the only Par 4’s on the course that has never been touched. Length means nothing on this hole! Anyways, I just view golf as a fun past-time now… I still work on the game, but I’m not a zealot any longer, if I enter a senior event, it’s just for fun now. Don’t worry guys…you’ll all get here…it’s like golf, age is a race everyone runs and no one wins… golf is a sport that can never truly be won it can only be played!
Not me… 50 yards maybe… 25 yds more distance off the tee means nothing as opposed to draining putts. I’ll guarantee you, if you truly putt everything out, you will lose way more strokes putting than hitting a 9i into a green as opposed to a 7i… unless you are wickedly accurate with your approach game. But then again, I’ve always put a huge premium on my approach game and putting game, than on distance off the tee. Lets take for instance a hole where I should hit driver (maybe) 530yd Par 5. Let’s say I smash it 255 still leaves me 275 in, not getting there, not no how, not no way, Let’s say I increased that to 280…I’m still 250 in. Decisions, decisions… I can play the same hole with 3metal 2x at 230 off the tee and 220 off the fw, and I do hit my 3w with alot less dispersion than the driver. (just my game) I’m 75 in. as opposed to what 45 in, That 45 is a much tougher shot because it’s not full. I still hit my 8i 140ish, I hit a GW 110ish, PW 120ish, 9i 130ish… That 25 yds on a 400yd hole isn’t doing me a whole heckuva lot of favors… Maybe if the hole was stretched to 440…25 more yds starts making a difference on what butter knife I’m playing into that. I just think distance is way more overrated than putting and pitching accuracy. We will disagree all day long… Hogan will tell you it was not the driving game or approach game that did him in… FLAT-STICK! And his peers all said the same thing. Go figure! And I’m a Hogan acolyte!
If you can divide the surface of the green into 4 quadrants, with the ability to hit the selected quadrant with short irons, then, you will have lower average for putt.
Our golf course used to divide the green into nonuplet , 9 parts for the green surface because this golf course has generous undulating putting surface. Pin sheets each morning will help tremendously to determine whether on the southside of the 36 putts or north of the 36.
Knowing the pin placement and the shape /slope of the green is essential for scoring low.
For the average Joe, take the driving distance, even putting is the next important segment.
I guess, even with the amateurs, there are so many level of skill and reception to this game.
I don’t know if this will answer your question, I always feel the driver, wedge and putter are the most important sticks in the golf bag.
The average golfers with the OEM been pumping out “new” models of drivers, then the putters and now the wedges. Maybe that will show the general agreement the driver ( distance) sell?
I have to tell you, I consider myself pretty deadly (for an amateur) with 8i on in. Deadly meaning I can get the ball to the middle of the green, probably 65-70% of the time from almost anywhere at the 8i on in distance. Doesn’t mean that I meet those expectations as it all depends on conditions. I very rarely shoot at sticks, I use the stick as a directional tool. If you are talking about quadrants as an amateur, you are a low single digit hdcp or a plus, talking about quadrants is way above most players paygrade including mine! We are happy to find FW & Green… Listening to that is like listening to Phil Michelsons interview with Feherty talking about striking the ball on the second groove as opposed to the third groove on his wedge and he was serious. That’s a different planet than 99.9% of the world. When i’m over the ball with an 8 iron on in, I fully expect to be able to get the ball legitimately on the green 80-85% of the time from the FW (getting in the FW is my problem) … and properly struck it’s going to go where I aimed it, it’s not going over if the back pin distance is 150ish, but at worst it’s going to be short, 10 yds from expected distance. I’m very confident I can hit it to the 12 yd circle I draw for myself. Out of rough, it’s definitely more dicey on direction, not so much on distance. My problem is 2 fold after we get below 8i, my GIR drops precipitously in accuracy and I might only get to hit 8i and below 9x per round if I’m striping everything AND then also not taking into consideration crummy tee shots. Rough, can and does twist the hosel and with that accurate direction for me drops to 25-30% with 8i - LW. I will also say I’m a good enough player to identify a flyer lie and that freaks my partners out. I could be 175 out and say, it’s a flyer lie…I’m hitting a 9i. and distance wise I’m spot on. They might hit their Drivers 180-190! I’ll frequently club my partners to help them out and make them understand some different things that a 7w out of a bit of ruff is going to travel way more than when they pull their 3 or 4 metal… they don’t understand how loft, lie and bounce really work and they’ve been playing for years. For the average Joe… I’m gonna say this one more time… 50 yards more distance off the tee just means deeper in the woods. For the average Joe…ball in play off the tee at a reasonable distance is what should be their premium… for the average Joe to score, they truly need an above average chipping and putting game… I played with 3 very nice young guys that not only couldn’t keep it on the planet, a 4 putt was the norm! The reason golf club and ball and now shoe companies make new stuff and claim more distance is because they know there is a huge percentage of the golfing population that is just believes in Jack’s Magic Beans. And some golfers are so obsessed they will spend their money on those Magic Beans and will continue to do so because as PT Barnum said: “There’s a sucker born every minute”. From experience… distance and accuracy does not come from Magic Beans. It does however, come from the Dirt!
Yes, but we’re not comparing apple to apple here. the professional’s 8 iron is 165-175 yards. Mine 8 iron is only 130-135 yards. Big difference there.
my 7/8 iron to the selected quadrants is probably 40-50% at best, better percentage with the front and back half. No chance even thinking of anything else but to get on the green with longer sticks. Anywhere close to the green if I have to pull out 3/4 woods.
So for my game I’d swap out making everything 8-10’ on the green to getting the distance back.
We’re on the opposite side of the coin as you prefer to make more putts on the green instead of more distance off the tee.
I prefer more distance to give me a chance to get close to where I want to land the golf ball for a better chance to make the putt.
Of course, professionals are playing 7,000+ yards and the weekend warriors are struggling with 6,500 yards muni courses.
I had the pleasure golf with collegiate golfers and top local amateurs; and I can honestly say, they play a different game. They will probably say the same if they play with the PGA professionals.
If your 8i is only traveling 135 and this is a strong ballpark guess your 5i is traveling 165-170. You should be probably maxxed out at 6200-6300yds. On a par 70 course I’m maxxed out at 6400yds or a 72 around 6600yds at 63 yo. But I hit my 5i 185-190ish. Not for me to tell you what to play, but I think you would have more fun at those distances than 6500yds. That’s why they make all of those tee boxes. I have played with PGA pros in my prime around 28-32 years old before I had kids. And I could play 6800-7000 yd courses and break 80 no problem. I did not have the short game and putter to play with them. They could get up and down off the roof of a golf cart and they never missed a short putt.
Most the tee I play are between 6,300-6,500. Summer months, will occasionally ventures out to 6,600-6,700 yards. These days I play like a low teens index. Just don’t have the enthusiasm to get on the driving range . I only go to the driving range when friends or wife need help for spotting.
Used to practice and play a lot more when I was younger. Body is pretty beat up. Had gone to Sports Spinal rehab earlier this year. Arthritis in the knees got better with the regiment of high dose fish oil but the swelling and the soreness in the hands are still with me everyday. This is caused by hitting all those hard surface when I did the martial arts during the Bruce Lee era, and decades of hitting range balls off the mat.
Pay back time.
I’m just glade to be able to still enjoy walking the golf course. A few of my friends had already moved on to other activities because their bodies could not handle this sport.
I’ll swap out the iron shafts in my set this winter and try out the graphite shafts next season. Had already gone from 130gm steel shafts to 110-120 gm. steel shaft already, so the next step is transition to graphite shafts in the irons.
Google “PGA recommended tees.” They use not only driver distance but 5 iron distance.
I’m 62 and play with many members of my golf club that are even older and shorter than I am. There are many, many of these guys playing the same tees I do (only about 6,000 yards), but they have never been on a par 4 in 2 shots. No idea why they don’t move up.
EGO! Plain and simple. These are the guys who spend money and search for The Magic Beans. These are the suckers that seem to think some magic new club will gain them yardage off their current iteration of a swing. This is a game to have fun with when you get older. I’m 63. Unless you are playing in tournaments… who honestly cares if you move around a bit. I rebuilt my swing, I will never gain the speed I had in my youth, not no way/not no how! But, I did dig up 40-50 yards out of the dirt with my woods, my iron game lost maybe 10 yards from years ago, but I still can hit a 50* 100, and my 38* 140 without stressing and pretty str8 out of the FW. So on a 400yd hole with 2 solid hits…it’s Dr 8i or 7i. On the 350 holes I can get away with a 3w and 9i. My 3 Partners… 1 keeps up with me he’s 64, one is 68 and the other is 72… I tell them to move up or I move back… it evens things out. Something has to give or they can’t play for any shekels whatsoever. You can play wherever you want, but it’s not a true test of your actual skill if every hole is Dr, FW wood, short pitch…