All legal and ethical questions aside….
The quality of golf being played at the RBC right now is incredible…
And you can’t beat Jim Nantz on the mic!
Edit: good gawd Sam burns and Wyndham go after the golf ball with the full swing
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Yeah, watching the final round yesterday, you cannot beat top players battling it out on a Sunday, watching the final groups go through the holes one after the other and facing the same challenges in similar conditions. The format works and whilst the saying ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’ is dumb this product is so high quality trying to compete with it is a rough ask.
Come back and tell us how you love it in a year or two. The LIV might not be around.
As for “high quality” yes, it is a “show” not a competing sports event. It does not have the whole field of the athletes supporting it, gave away insane amount of money to “gather support” from the mustered field. Half of it which I have no idea who they are( sorry, I don’t keep up with all the rising stars in recent years) and a lot of player on the injure watch.
Flag wavers did not allow sensitive questions to be asked in the “press tent” what kind of event is that? A back yard private party.
I guess if people watching shows like what Kardashian are doing, any type of “show” can be enjoyed?
I’ll be waiting to see if any major media carry live broadcasting and the viewer rating will give a true assessment of the commercial value. Without it, it is but a charity event.
Not sure of the incentive has a qualifier of the payment(s) and the level of commitment. It must have. What if the player have injury flare up, not able to do the full scheduled events?
Letting these issue to exist in the first place is unwise. Can’t cover the fire with paper.
I was never a huge Rory fan, but man he can bomb it and play the game when all pistons are firing, especially for a smaller size guy! I have gained a huge amount of respect for him as a person and leader. I’m now a fan after his MIC DROP interview moment! (I now have one more win than someone else!) I did watch a bit of the first round of the Camel Tour and just shut it off, I didn’t like the coverage, I didn’t understand the leaderboards, it was like watching a Pro-Am with your local Pros and some Ams that could play. Schwartzl made $88K a hole! The money is ridiculous. For the people that are supporting this, more power to ya… You can talk about it being a rival Tour, it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE! This is a money grab, pure and simple for the players… it’s not about independence or bettering the game or creating a rival game. Sure, I’d like to see a couple more Match Play Tourneys on the PGA, but you can’t beat the venues, the level of play, the crowds, the whole package. The Camel Tour did not even reach the level of play I’ve seen on the Korn/Ferry and yesterday I took a ride to Galloway and watched the Ladies in the on and off rain. Just amazing, the level of play. Look at what Linn Grant did yesterday on the DP! IMO, and it is My Opinion, the PGA and DP have nothing to worry about, they have every right to not only protect their Tours and their business, but honestly, to protect and nurture the game for future players and fans. I guess I could see that the Camel Tour could support some players that are 40-50 years old… not good enough over 4 rounds anymore, but not of age for the Champions Tour…that’s about it!
It was never a question of “don’t fix it if not broken”. From the beginning it is the take over of an existing territory of proven entity.
In every sense, it is legal by law. The player’s participation was never disputed, but the action from the PGA to suspend their privilege is expected.
Of course, there is no ethic concern in the business world, as this arena is no different than the others. Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, all done similar and worse.
And of course, anyone want to be a flag waver, it’s your right to do so, until proven otherwise.
It’ll be more clear of which direction and the longevity of this new Tour after the first season, if it last that long. If they are counting on to pick up financial support along the way, it probably won’t happen until it’s proven to be able to go beyond the surviving mode.
I mean why not, there are those wishing to tear down the tradition of any kind.
Regardless; the tradition and the rules are part of the charm of this game. Without the tradition and the governing rules. this game will be too difficult to follow. Not really as simple as a bowling league.
Who want to spend a lifetime chasing a game without the guided boundary? The charm would be gone, so will the fans. All the industries build around this game will also disappear.
The type of injury sustained by a small frame golfer who compete with the field of taller, stronger and younger athletes will be deep. Not just small joints like fingers, wrist and such. Rory’s injury was piled up through golfing from a very young age. No one is immune.
Just wish he was not doing anything to mask the injury and pain.
Charls Schwartzel just won $4.5M for London. He would have NEVER seen that kind of purse on the PGA Tour. Wait until LIV signs up a couple of hot shot college players. I am old enough to remember the old AFL/NFL days and everyone bad mouthed the AFL - until SB III. I am not sure of the real numbers but I would guess that 10% of the golfers on the PGA Tour win 90% of the monies. My estimate would be that the Bottom 75 in world rankings, win only 5% of the total tours purses. I see Pat Perez just switched, I bet he will make more in this year than he did the past 5 years on the tour. I am not sure how many more years he has left.
So like most things successful, people want to copy it and make some money too. No different here.
One thing that did come out of this mess is I knew that Phil wagered but no idea he gambled so irresponsibly. To put his family at such a risk is unforgivable, what is a …I am at a loss for words. For that he drops out of the running for Golf’s Good Guy List.
there are a lot of skeletons in the closet for phil - he did a good job for a while hiding them, but most knew about his gambling (rumor is he switched to callaway since they paid his gambling debt off to sign with them)
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Here’s what a bit a research will tell you, not including sponsorship dollars and commercial monies, The top 125 golfers on the PGA all made over $900K. I don’t know about you, but that’s not horrible. The best players, the best venues, the best fans are on the PGA Tour. The measurable competition is on the PGA Tour. The players the 54 camel tour have are all past their prime. Jimmy Piot took $1M to play. But will never get a chance now to play in the Masters. He will have to qualify for the Opens and no PGA for him. And biggest of all NO Ryder Cup ever! Even The “Who is that guy” on The PGA Tour makes bank now! You just don’t know it or them. Believe me I get it, these middle tier guys can take care of their families forever. Eventually, the MBS playtoy will become boring and it may exist, for a long time….but I don’t see it being anything other than a nuisance. No one wants to watch team golf on made up teams, no one wants to watch players who are past their prime play meh golf with no pressure and not having any incentive to practice. If I was DJ or Bryson, 9 figures that’s do whatever I want cash. But the traditions of this game will supersede everything. I mean the 54 camel tour isn’t even governed by the rules of golf if they don’t want to be. So Patrick Reed can adjust any lie he wants now. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see
- have no doubt that Phil is a smart person. However, education and the test of fire is usually necessary for those who goes to the top baring from some element of luck and chance involvement.
Phil is clearly a smart person, but he is a prey in the eyes of those who had been through the steps of test of fire.
Not saying everyone must go through the steps to be successful, but, when one steps into the arena of 9 figures or more, they’ll be playing a different game than bottom feeding.
Phil does not have it.
Norman does not have it.
They are just a prawn in the game. Being used for the basic greed and need for human nature.
Unfortunately, they also use their status to draw in those who trusted them without doing their own home work.
I don’t know, in the case of Dustin, he may very well made the right move by collecting the “stupid money” to secure his own future.
In the bigger picture, all the digits in the financial institute will not guarantee any security if the infrastructure built around it collapse.
Too far away from the subject matter, I’ll stop.
’
Not arguing the $…but while they made $900k, remember there are plenty of payments to be made from that (travel, coaches, caddy, etc). They obviously have some sponsor $ to offset that, but don’t take it as anywhere near $900k goes right into their pocket. They’re not hurting, but it’s not as big as the number would make it seem.
I am in total understanding of what these players are doing. It is a 100% money grab. It is their right as independent contractors to do as they see fit to support their personal lives and families. For some of these guys it’s multi generational cash. BUT, the PGA Tour and it’s membership, it’s business model, it’s charities and sponsorships have the absolute right and responsibility to all of the above to protect that and protect itself by any and all means necessary. The PGA Tour has already been found through the Toscano decisions in the 90s, not to have even come close to violating Antitrust Laws. If they want to cancel memberships, if they want to enforce their rules of membership, if they want to Pete Rose players they can and should be able to that. The players that jump should not be surprised by the the Tours sanctions and possible lifetime bans they would choose to impose. I support that whole heartedly. There is plenty of cash and prestige associated with the opportunity to play on the Tour, just not silly monies. The younger players could be enticed to play on the 54, that is a choice, but those kids will have no way to qualify for majors and build a legacy and just to reinforce the $950K the 125th ranked player is making is an annual number. Feel free and do that from age 22 to 32, do the math. Not so shabby. That’s all I’m saying.
“stupid money” said it all.
Go grab it before it is gone.
From GOLF Magazine:
f PLAYER PROFILE
A Top 125 guy. A pro whose Tour card is a no-doubter; who nails down a win in the occasional year; and who can be counted on each season to make it to—and sometimes through—the Dell Technologies event in the FedEx Cup playoffs. His approximate 2017-18 season prize-money earnings was $2,000,000.
BALANCE SHEET
Average total Tour earnings: $2,000,000
Average total non-tournament earnings: $700,000
Average total outlay: $554,000
Average net profit (before taxes): $2,146,000
So that is a pretty nice earnings!! The ‘outlay’ includes caddy, agent, trainer, travel, insurance, coach, etc.
I think the biggest point is the majors. If the LIV players don’t get access it destroys their potential legacy. The GOAT argument, Jack v Tiger always comes back to majors and always will.
I’m not a Brandel Chamblee lover, he’s ok… BUT he is brutally honest. If anyone listened to his diatribe on 6/14, this is what should set off the alarm bells. In a nutshell, he went through what the PGA Tour would have to do to minimally compete with what the Camel Tour is doing and offering players to jump. The PGA Tour sponsors Korn-Ferry, Champions, Latin America, and China Tours. The PGA Tour also gives a ton of moneys to charities and brings in monies to the cities they play in. Yes, golf fans are relatively small compared to other sports, but the PGA Tour has donated more monies to charities both local and national than the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL combined forever! Following me so far. Golfers not only watch and attend events we, the fans, actually play the sport and we play according to rules and tournaments that have been in place for hundreds of years. The PGA TOUR actually is growing the game, they do pro-ams, they do clinics, junior golf etc. You might not be able to play football with Tom Brady, but, if your lucky, you could get hooked up with someone like that in a Pro-Am. To us mortals that’s what is so great. Well, in order to compete with a sponsor like Saudi Arabia, that brings in a BILLION Dollars a day selling oil you have to change that. So all of that goes away! All of it! Those monies will now have to go to the Phil Mickelsons, DJs, etc because these greedy money grabbers think they deserve it and feel their skill levels of playing this game in 54 hole, no cut tournaments deserve it. Read that 2 or 3 times, let it marinate as a fans of the game, let it sit and marinate in your minds as you want to get one of your kids or grandkids to take up the this wonderful game to go out and spend 4-5 hours or more with Dad or Pop-Pop! You all think about that… then express your feelings as to what is going on. This is, a personal vendetta that Greg Norman has and has had against the PGA Tour and he has brought enough people out on the branch of this dead tree to either live or die with him. The more info that has come out… I hope these players are happy in their new found wealth, but I truly hope the game I grew up with and fell in love with does not get destroyed.
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I’m fairly certain that’s not true. The Tour donates only about 3% of it’s own money to charity. That said they take a lot of credit for what the tournaments donate to charity. The tournaments are the big donors, but obviously the Tour is involved in the tournaments. I’ve read most other sports leagues are also non-profits, but that they donate more %-wise to charity than the PGA Tour.
The PGA TOUR, by far has donated the most as a sport to charities. They are closing in on $3B. (Actually surpassed that already) The other sports are not even close to that. Now, individuals is not the sport and The PGA Players are not included in that PGA Tour number. For instance the millions of dollars that Palmer and Nicklaus gave to the hospitals named after their wives, The TDub Foundation and so much more are not included in that number. These numbers are readily available on the WWW… Lebrons Foundation is NOT the NBAs charitable donations. The other sports combined as leagues isn’t even $1.8B to charities.
Sorry but you are wrong here. The PGA Tour has HELPED generate about $3B for charity, but they themselves have not donated anywhere near that much. They have donated about $40MM-$50MM each year over the last few years which is about 3% of their income. Most of that $3B is coming from the tournaments and their charitable donations. The PGA Tour’s marketing just takes credit for all of it.
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Please post the link where you found that information. Since 1997 the NFL Foundation has charitable donations of around $130M. NBAs foundation is about $20-$30M annually. Millions are not Billions. The article written by Ricky Clemons in 2021 is picking and choosing the way balance sheets for the organization are submitted. All the sports foundations are like that. He states in his article, this isn’t being written to downplay what the TOUR generates for charities… because without the events coming to the venues…NONE OF IT HAPPENS. Although I do not use my MBA in Finance particularly in my line of work… I do understand how the IRS and public balance sheets work, The PGA Tour by far and I do mean by far, and they do not include what individual player foundations contribute to their own personal charities… leads them all by a tremendous amount. HOWEVER, that’s not the point I was making… It will all be going away if The PGA Tour does not do everything in it’s power to punish players for reneging their PGA Tour memberships and protecting what The PGA Tour does for the sport. Arnold Palmer, Ben Hogan et al are weeping in their graves