The LIV Tour --- and a Scruffy Phil ! Opinions -- agree or disagree?

General Discussion
#223

No details of the merge had been disclosed to the public just yet.

Maybe, the PGA Tour is in the commanding role? The investors of the LIV probably is dunking the LIV like a hot potato, since it had nothing to show after more than a year of trying.

If PGA Tour did not have a favorable term for the merge, then this will be the requiem to the existing structure.

For one thing, I don’t believe the regular tour events could sustain higher ticket price and broadcast right.
It’ll be the beginning of the end.
Logistically, it has a lot to iron out for a non-profit organization to merge with a for profit business.

It might be too much to swallow without consequences. Plus, there will be no world market for the tour. The sports had grown to be as large as it could expand.

#224

I’ll be very interested to listen to how the TOUR members are going to swallow this. They were the ones who stood on principle. They followed TOUR leadership who did nothing but bash LIV or in layman’s terms the PIF. Look, for those of us who lost friends or even family on 9/11, you felt good supporting these players who for all intents lead a charmed life, mastering a game we struggle with, but at least we can play, on the same venues they do (you’re not ever playing ball at Yankee stadium) and make and even the not so good players make a salary that most of us could only dream about. I watch the Golf Channel almost non stop, I’m a huge fan. I’m the OP here and my feelings on Phil and consequently the rest of the jumpers is I don’t respect you personally, but I can’t blame you either. I will still enjoy playing this game, I don’t know if I will enjoy watching it as much any longer. The game for a Touring Pro is about making money, I’ve had to swallow stuff in my workplace, so I get that part. I’ve seen people resign on principle though usually after they got another job. Other than running a pro shop, these guys have no where else to go. I mean Henrik made $30M for his entire career on the PGA Tour (worked very hard for it and I don’t begrudge it) and in 2 weeks made $54M when he joined LIV. Back in the 1960s Sam Snead played an exhibition match at our course. He got paid for that, BUT would not show up for the dinner afterwards because he wanted more appearance money to do that. So, I get it, it’s always been about money. It’s what makes the world go round. I don’t think this is over quite yet, There are a lot of people and entities that will end up with a say… I’m sure more to come as details emerge. As far as growing the game, I’ve said my piece. Take a few billion and make the game a bit more affordable and accessible. $150 a round anymore is ridiculous… I really think this move will just suck the life out of the PGA Tour, professional golf arena. So now, no matter what happens… if the merger doesn’t happen or get approved (because it has to be approved by congress) the PGA players will now jump, no reason to stand on principle.

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#225

It is a done deal.
“quote”
PGA and LIV Merge

The PGA Tour and Saudi-backed LIV Golf announced a proposed merger yesterday, ending their rivalry on the global golfing stage.

Under the agreement, the golf-related commercial businesses and rights of LIV Golf’s main financial supporter, the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia, will combine with those of the PGA Tour and the European-based DP World Tour, establishing a collectively owned, for-profit entity. The tours will continue to run independently but will have board oversight, primarily controlled by the PGA. The PIF, which will occupy a chairman position with the new entity, will provide the initial funding and have the right to invest—and refuse outside investment—in the entity.

The news comes nearly a year after LIV Golf debuted as a professional golf series, facing criticism for attempting to “sportswash” the country’s image in light of its human rights record. The merger will resolve any ongoing legal disputes and establish a process for LIV players, including stars Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson, to reapply for membership in the PGA Tour and DP World Tour after the 2023 season.

The merger awaits approval from the PGA Tour policy board and is expected to be finalized this year. See player reactions here.

“quote”

I’m not sure if this will wash the image of who really is behind the “public investment fund of Saudi Arabia”.
Changing the name of the soup while keeping all the ingredients is not going to change the taste.
It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 3-5 years as it develops after someone got their foot in the door.
All the supposed safeguards measurement set forth today could be overcome gradually.
A white wash, a money laundering, a scheme to cover up. How would a none-profit organization mixes with for profit business? Not only just on the books but morally and principles.
Someone did not think this through.
The luster of the PGA Tour and the PGA have certainly faded for this golfer.
I’ll be just plugging along with my recreational game and forget about the noise they had created. not interested even viewing the broadcasting for the majors.
A bunch of idiots.

#226

Norman was reported “not present” at the meeting and negotiation.
I wonder if he just keeps the title and has no real power of how to run a business now.

#227

How much is enough? Giving up one’s principle and standard for ethic for more digits in the banks. Really worth it?
We don’t live forever, you know.
These greedy money grabber showed their true face during the extra ordinary time.
Heroes will reveal themselves during crisis. Jack Nicklaus did not waver for a reported large cum to wave the LIV flag.
Money is no good if not put to use and we could not take it with us when we leave.

#228

Not disagreeing, but it’s likely easier for Jack and Tiger to say no to big money when they already have big money and their legacy can still make them big money. I’m not going to judge those that said yes to the money as I might have done the same. I’d like to think I wouldn’t, but no one is offering so who knows.

I used to work for a company that made components used in weapons, but also commercial products. We were constantly harped on for selling commercial products to China. We were not allowed to sell them any military/weapons related stuff of course, but other products were ok although the management discouraged us…all the while increasing our target sales #'s. Then the Saudis offered big money for our products and management took it in a heartbeat once the gov’t approved it. All internal docs referenced them as “country x” as if to hide it lol. Big money showed up and everyone jumped off their high horse. Business in business.

I’m also not sure what closing ourselves off from the Saudis, China, etc would accomplish. Could we starve them into becoming better? Probably not. It may be better to slowly embrace them and encourage change. Their govts will want to keep control, but the people may eventually push them into changing. Of course we could stand to improve quite a bit ourselves.

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#229

You have some valid points there.
How much money is enough? Obviously most the defectors were already multi-millionaires.
What is the difference between 20 millions vs. 200 millions? How much money does one needs for a lifespan of 70/80? Maybe if lucky into the 90s?
I mean, how much food can one consume? No one can put their ass in two sports car at the same time, if there is one, I’d like to witness.

World is changing, yes, and it has always changes. I’m just one person, but I can choose where to spend my pennies.
I may not make much a difference to the rest of the world, but it’ll suit me.
We don’t need to “close ourselves” to the rest of the world but we could definitely be influential to the direction of the changes.

People use the words of survival, being compatible, leading the trend… all excuses. We can live with other better choices.
I had witness companies trying to save pennies from R&D ended up losing dollars resulting from the shortcut it was taking.
Most the CEO, CFO are paper driven, they know the numbers shown in reports are only good for the short duration but they don’t care. Because by the time the leaks became open issue, they’d be long gone with their bonus and retirement.
Haven’t we seen enough of these?
When will we learn?
Animals will perish if they don’t learn quickly, we are the only ones blindfolded ourselves.

#230

I don’t like to get political on here, but this is political. So here goes and I’m going to be try and be truthful. What the Saudi government allowed to happen on 9/11 is unforgivable for me at this point in time. What they have allowed OPEC+ to do our country and the rest of the Western world is FREE-MARKET, I get it, but on that standpoint they could and should be better partners. I don’t care for anyone who compromised principles and jumped the PGA, so I just don’t support them, I get it, I just don’t support them. What Monahan did, in my limited view, at this time, is unforgiveable… I really don’t think the PGA was hurting, but I honestly do not know. So the PGA business leadership is down the toilet for me, but I will still root for the guys that held out. They have no choice now, they have to make a living, but I won’t support the TOUR in any way shape or form at this time. I lost relatives in Birkenau, part of my family was Jewish, there are no (ZERO) survivors from that part of my family. My wife is of German decent, I don’t hate Germans, I hate and mean hate Fascists, Nazis, and the German government during that time period. My bosses are Jewish, my golf teacher (RIP) was one of the nicest, most generous persons I ever met…he was a player on the UGA… if you don’t know what that was… it was the all black tour that was formed because people like Mr. Bishop and Mr Sifford had to ply their trades elsewhere because they weren’t allowed to play at white country clubs or play on the Tour at all… But they would certainly let you carry a drink or a golf bag!. Don’t think that doesn’t rub my rhubarb the wrong way. So the PGA Tour has alot of bones in their closets too. I don’t like the way this seems to be coming about… Some things over time can be forgiven, but NEVER FORGOTTEN! Ask the Apache, Cherokee or Dakota nations (and many more) how they feel about the US Government. I’m certain it’s not all peaches and cream! In the end, this is about the cash. If we can increase some donations to charities…I’d feel a little better, if they can help us golfers pay lower greens fees by subsidizing the game a tad, that would make me feel better too… That’s how you grow the game… not by pricing people out of it! Someone asked the question above… HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH? Great question, here is the answer… he who has the most when they die wins! Point is: for many it’s never enough!

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#231

The one who has the most when they die has the number, that’s it. We’ll be all even after we breath the last breathe. I had seen some of the top 1% and truthfully, I do not envy their life.
In the 70’s there were a guy who loved to golf but none of his employees dared to do “better” on the golf course than he. This was the guy who will hold top management parties at his whim, no one can bring their spouse to those lavished parities because the wives will spoil the fun. Lady friends are welcomed, but I would not bring my own because just in case this guy happened to fancy her.
No girl friends? No problem, go see Joe with the company resource book ( back then we didn’t have the webpage), just a large photo album with photos of available ladies and their resume. His girl friend drives a domestic sports car, mistress drives a mid-sized Mercedes and the wife had a chauffeured Mercedes limo.
I seriously didn’t believe this guy was happy. I could sense his frustration playing the rat game.
To a lot of the super rich guys, money is but a number to them, they could not get satisfaction out of the ordinary things in life. They worry about maintaining their wealth or to get more , instead of enjoying life. Very sad.
I tell you, the majority of the excitement and the thrills these guys/gals get is from the envious expression from the onlookers.
They get the happiness when someone look at and want their possessions.

It is what makes one happy.

I will tell you this, Saudis was not only allowing the 911 incidents. It was the instigator and supporter all the way.
Not many knows, they had been trying to jump on the express wagon with their fortune to be the super power and the existing structure was in the way of their wish to accelerate the rise to the top. They had no patience to wait so they took the radical method.
No difference than a revolution with violent means in the history.
Yes, they put their claws into major industries globally, but it is but a number. Anyone wish to wipe it off the chalk board, could do it over night.
It is to say, do not give your son a motorcycle before he knows how to handle it unless you want to attend his funeral. Giving the control of your life to these few with cockeyed vision of the world is a mistake.
Things will change and it has been. But the accelerated process of changing is no good for everyone. People has no patience these days and everyone is looking for the “easy way” to get to the end in a hurry.
Same as the game of golf. everything that sells quickly with a ridiculous price tag are those promising a quick and easy way to achieve the goal.
As for the game of golf, I would say, the end of the journey is not the goal and often not attainable, the journey is what we should focus on.

Enjoy the journey. Hopefully we will understand this before too long, to enjoy the game more.

#232

Here’s another thought. I don’t know if it’s true, but the talk has swirled about the LPGA has approached or has been approached by PIF. That would be just the ultimate hypocrisy! If that happens, in my mind, on the professional level…. We have lost the game. It would be gone! Agree?

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#233

It really just come into light of what has been going on for the last half a century and more.
If you give a unbroken stream of wealth to a small country with a few in control of the wealth and their people, what would they do with the wealth? What could they do with it?
After they spend all they could on themselves, there is nothing to do but to buy out their neighbor’s assets. It gets boring with all the vice the world could offer.
If you only know that they’re not just buying out equity and debt in the major industries but also into the everyday thing like real estate, formula ONE racing, horse racing and thoroughbred breeding. I mean, it gets boring after awhile breaking all the forbidden pleasure in life their religion taught them to stay away. I can tell you, even in the 70s and 80s their royalties and those sent over to the western world for education had been indulging in the humanly pleasure here which they could not have back home.
I had known a few “foreign students” and one “sheik”. When everyone still used the coin-operated payphone, he cruised around campus in his M/B 600 with a mobile phone. Probably only a dozen or less of the mobile phones in our city at that time and half of that belonged to the family members of a start up mobile communication company.
When they get tired of what money could buy, women, drug, real estate, stocks… they want to be in the driver seat.
Nothing feels more powerful than having the lives of others in your gingers. It almost feels like being the God.
Going after the PGA Tour is probably one thing they will ended up exposing their deeds to the unaware mass.
We knew what they were up to but in general, everyday people lack the knowledge of what is going on. Now they will be in the spot light, and perhaps, by now they don’t care if people knows their deeds.
Maybe, the merge of the PGA Tour and the LIV is to happen no matter what. The approach used by Greg Norman was the cause of all the tension. It could have happened in a more civilized manner.

As for the rumor of taking over the LPGA? I have not heard of it, but could imaging their money is welcome there also.

End of the sports? No F’n way. End of the professional golf tour, perhaps.
I could careless, I don’t make a living playing golf. The millions the professionals make has nothing to do with me or my golf game.
I just feel discussed when almost everything could be bought with the digits in the bank.
Especially this game, where tradition and rules and integrity have been part of the game for centuries.
Death of the sports? No, I don’t think so.
Tinted, perhaps.
The younger generation could careless. Some of them don’t remember or chose to forget the 911. This is the issue with the generation without the true test of fire.
They have no idea.

#234

Isn’t there already an Aramco Series at some level of the LPGA? Maybe a feeder tour?

If so, I’m guessing that horse is already out of the barn… LPGA’s $ and eyeballs are a lot less than the PGA’s, so I think the investment fund is going to concentrate on getting the situation with the men’s tours hashed out first.

Nobody’s going to be liberalized by this cash and global recognition. You all know that, right? Still though, it beats the (likely apocryphal) story of from one of the Abu Dhabi Emirs: "My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel , I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel.”

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#235

This is a long read, but it is in detail of what’s going on and the behind the scene of the mega broker to put the talk together for the PGA Tour and the PIF.
It also points out why the PGA Tour is even looking at the merge. Common sense says to let the failed competition die and rot. And the one person who put everyone on the same page.

#236

The pretty boy Phil ( used to be , anyway ) gets a lot of fan support on the social media. Especially the female gender persona ( real or spoofed ).
I wonder if he will step up to represent the interests of the LIV and it’s curator after Norman retreats to behind the scene operation.