I didn’t completely disagree with Phil’s opinion of the Tour. They can be dictatorial and greedy IMO. I have read they don’t donate as much to charity percentage-wise as other sports and players and employees may not get the % they should either. I don’t know any of this for certain, but I do know that when a rich person starts whining about not getting as much money as they believe they deserve, I just want to slap them hard.
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Yes, without the support of at least half of the top 20 ranked professionals in the world, the added Tour will be doomed for failure.
But who knows, there were lots of cases which should have gone belly up a hundred times over but survived.
Amazon is on top of the example.
As we experience in life, the young lion will tempt to take over the leadership and often times not well prepared and got licked.
Here is the recent whining, poor baby.
Greg Norman is a worm. I used to have a great respect for the person he used to be. Greg Norman is not in this for the Good of the Game… Greg Norman is in it for Greg Norman. The majority of the Tour is probably tempted by the cash, but don’t BS yourself this has nothing to do with the game. I’ll leave it right there
I have a lot of respect for Greg as a golfer; but, not as much for him as a human being.
He paid the dues as a tournament player and it was exciting to watch him in the hunt when he had his game on. However, he did not evolve as a human being after he made it to the top. It seemed, he stopped or could not improve his person along with his financial situation.
You are spot on, he still acts like a hungry shark when he has more to learn and more to share.
A man needs to know his limitations. Ben Hogan was asked at one time as why he never express himself much in the public ( he was a different person among close friends ); he said, keep your mouth shut if you don’t have much to say, and they might not know how little you know about the subject ( or something similar to this ).
The game of golf imitates life; where with the game, one could recover from the bad shots much more easier than a real life situations. The imitation is not equal to real life. Some will never learn, no matter of their other achievements in life or their level of education.
Kind of like, one could work hard at the game, but the ceiling will be lower, if not born with a package of the physical and mental ability.
One has be able to take a punch if wish to start a fight !
If we peel back the layers of onion, Rory was echoing the position from Greg Norman’s investment group. I withhold it’s name for not wanting to mention it.
Would not be surprised if some members of the investment group representing the interests from the sandbox region. Which is desperately seeking to expand into other industry besides crude oil in the last few decades.
It’s war, and they don’t care how many bodies they’ll have step over, what method they’ll have to use to get what they want.
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I’m not sure big payoffs are necessarily good for the sport: it pushes all prices higher, from equipment to lessons to greens fees, especially at courses that are tourney venues. Did y’all know Sawgrass is now charging +$800 per round??? ($840 as of March this year at best time & venue). Claims by anti golfers that golf is elitist seems spot-on when prices and earnings are rapidly climbing to those levels.
Certainly we have inflation. I doubt tourney purses affect it at all however.
As to the Sawgrass observation, a couple of things. It’s supply and demand. Access to a limited resource can be rationed by a variety of methods. Bethpage has its notorious “sleep in the parking lot for a tee time” group. Cypress Point simply doesn’t allow the vast majority of people to be members. And Sawgrass is choosing to use price to limit the number of buyers.
As there are a myriad of golf choices in the US that aren’t Sawgrass, I don’t see how a few (considering the total number) courses with extremely restrictive policies, shows that the sport as a whole is elitist.
It’s certainly not an inexpensive sport though. Especially as I watch the US lose in the World Cup, and have seen kids playing soccer with all sorts of “balls”. Though in theory, you can go to e.g., Goodwill, buy an old set for 20 bucks or so, and scrape it around a local park.
Maybe how some of us started, but likely doesn’t bear resemblance to how much we enthusiasts spend on the game today. Oh well.
The main cost in this game is not the set of golf clubs one purchased. May that be a 3,000-8,000 custom fitted bag or a $50 set bought from a thrift store. The expense comes in the form of a stream of green fees, and related expenses into the future.
One of the guy trying to get his son to start the game and complained about the cost of a fitted set of golf clubs. I told him, the golf clubs will be a one time expenditure which should last many years but every time the family get onto the golf course will be quite the green fees and other related expenses, Even for the average Joe, the golf budget could be from a couple of thousands to over 5 digit annual expenditure.
If the TPC Saw Grass is trying to use the hiked up green fee to limit the usage of the golf course, they will be successful. Looking at the Pebble Beach and the attached Spanish Bay and the Spy Glass Hill, the green fees certainly limited the rounds of play. A trip there will be over quite a few thousands including lodging.
The only TPC golf complex near me was sold a few years ago, now under new management as a semi private golf club. The green fees was out of reach for the average Joe.
I’m not like my father who was a country club golfer. I’m a daily fee golfer and I can choose to spend as much or as little as I wish. Play a different golf course every week if that makes sense.
As I see the cost of playing this game goes up faster in the last decades, throw the slogan of “growing this game” out of the windows.
When the general public can no longer afford or justify the cost of this game, they will seek other activities instead.
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Golf does not have to be expensive. I’m a volunteer coach at the First Tee of Greater Richmond. We have three facilities in the area, each with some kind of course (ranging from pitch ‘n’ putt to regulation) and good practice facilities. Kids in our programs play the courses and use the practice facilities for free when they’re in our programs. The courses are all pretty reasonably priced for adults, especially compared to greens fees at other daily-fee courses in the area. Our participants are also signed up for Youth On Course, so they can play for $5 at courses across the country.
Golf can be as expensive or as inexpensive as you want to make it. People will always look at places like Sawgrass or Pebble Beach and claim that golf is just for rich people. They’ll look at Augusta National, Cypress Point, or the exclusive country club in town and claim that golf is elitist. These folks don’t want to let facts get in the way of their narrative. I don’t know that we’ll ever change Malcolm Gladwell’s mind about golf, and frankly I don’t know if it’s worth the time and effort to try. But if we can get more people who are merely indifferent toward golf out there and playing, then we don’t need to worry as much about people with axes to grind.
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There is no inexpensive golf, no longer after the 80s.
Not for anyone over the age of 17.
The majority of the retired folks could not take up the traditional sports as part of the retirement. The cost of getting involved beyond the difficulty of first have to learn how to advance the golf ball had turned most of the new retirees away to other activities.
I have a chance to interface with senior golfers on and off the golf courses and the feeling I received is that they will not be after this game as we did in the earlier decades.
The game is only open to those either have the financial ability or someone who will dedicate most of their resources in pursuing golf.
Wow Pebble is Cheaper! I played Sawgrass in 1988 for gratis! I actually played alot of courses at no charge as a guest of the member or in a tournament, so it was just the entry fee. I’ve paid for 2 “big time” courses in my life Spyglass…we couldn’t play Pebble…That was $275++ at the time and Bethpage Black which was because I was a NYS resident at the time was like $35. Pine Valley, Merion, Aronomink, Firestone South, Olympic, Doral, Sawgrass, Oak Hill, Atlantic City, White Manor, Cog Hill, Inverarry and Inverness…I was fortunate to not have to bring my checkbook! And the prices I’m sure are going to continue to rise!
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You’re right. I just looked up Pebble. Greens fee are ‘only’ $595 if a guest. (Which you kinda’ sorta’ need to be, for reasons discussed earlier) Such a bargain!
The rooms are where you get hosed. “Garden” rooms at the Inn start at 900/night, and they weren’t great when I worked there. At that price, just pay another few hundred and get a better view.
All that said, Pebble IMHO is worth doing. Once. The others aren’t, though I’d likely change my mind now vs when I played them.
What, in your mind, is the maximum affordable greens fee? Can’t really have this discussion if I don’t know what you mean by “affordable.”
Affordability from the point of view with the retirees. Most of them largely depending on fixed income after retirement. Quite a few had their own businesses sold and got our before the pandemics and a few whom had planned deep savings from their productive years.
However, for the most of the retirees. maxing out on the fixed retirement is not going to be anywhere close to being comfortable.
Some tried to pick up the game of golf and found out they ran out of money and the patience.
Affordable, means discretionary amount. Something one could put in the expenditure without blinking an eye or think twice about it.
The example I had used in the past, which I first heard from one of the guys, was comparing to a round of golf with golf cart and a couple of brew at the 19th. Our local muni course ( by no means an up-scaled golf facility, in fact, I seldom golf there when I was younger), Golf with a seat on the riding cart will be over $50/weekdays and $80/weekends with the senior rate. Not many I know will fork over a couple of hindered each week just for golf without blinking. This comparing to a pound of US choice NY steak for under $10 at warehouse member price.
When someone comparing using their resources between grocery ( which is essential ) to golf ( which is non-essential to life). We will guess the cost of participating in this game has gone out of range for the average Joe.
The benefit of walking a golf course, getting out in the nature and exercise is good for you. But if anyone need to think of what they could have done with the green fees and tax(s) they just paid with what they could have had for dinner for several days… it is not affordable.
There are people doing well in different sectors of the society; but the majority of the “golfers” could no longer afford to get out on the golf courses 2-3 times per week.
When we need to stretch out wallet to get the weekly golf in, it is not being affordable.
when I was younger, most the golfers could get on the golf course several times a week without even having a second thought.
Here’s the pricing for Seniors at the 4600 yard, par 66 First Tee Chesterfield. Would you consider this affordable? As info, our composite cost of living is approximately 96% of the national average, so we’re pretty darn close to average. These costs are much less than you cite in your example.
And if you want to play for free, staff at most courses (public and private) I know of play for free. I didn’t have ready access to golf growing up, so I worked at a local private club I could ride my bike to in order to play.
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With our local standard the green fee schedule you posted is in the range of affordable. We had similar schedule about a decade ago.
All of the sudden because the increase in the population and the interests peaked by the pandemics, the local municipal authorities deemed the higher price is suitable. Thus squeezed out some of the retirees. I know that I have been seeing some of them several times a week in the past, now maybe a few times a month.
Everyone’s pocket feels tight these days, so the “none-essentials” will be cut first. Not very good for the retirees, many of them start to consume alcoholic beverages more often, weight gain… all the not good for you stuff.
Of course, I did not compare the living standard between your region to mine, that does not matter a whole bunch with fixed income. I mean, one will not get a larger check because one lives in a place with higher cost of living.
What I see is, those who tried to keep this sports in their weekly routine had been going to golf courses farther away. I had been seeing carpooling golfers at the Costco gas stations with one driver and 3 other napping in the vehicle. Carpooling is fine and we had done it many times. With the cost of fuel still 65%+ more than a year ago and 300% than a decade ago. traveling is not something the average wish to do on a weekly bases.
Plus, traveling more than 2 hours round trip in traffic is not fun.
There been an increase of over 1.2 million new comers in the Puget Sound region. Of course we have people got squeezed out because of the rising cost of living and the stuff which cane with the population growth. Crime rate is higher than anytime in the past 4 decades, traffic is a mess ( getting to be like the Los Angeles gridlock ). We have more rolling and hilly terrain, and the newly arrived brought their driving habit here from a flatter plain. Pedestrians death related to traffic jumped 3000 + % even before the end of the year.
Quote one of my senior, on both age and intelligence, our life is run by the most undesirable people at this time.
Looking back into the 60s and the 70s. I’m sure we could get out of this mess, eventually. However, time does not wait for anyone.
The side effects of growing the game, had brought in more profit for the golf industry. Squeezing out the traditional golfers and most of the supposed new golfers will not hang around long.
It’s like in a restaurant business. One got famous and popular, then comes the price adjustment, then the reservation will go down, the regulars will not return as regular anymore. They can not depend on the once in a life time customers for bread and butter. Most of these will go under in a decade if not sooner, or sold out to investment group.
Same as any other industries.
Reading these post I realize that I live in a good place to play a lot of golf. My golf club cost $110/month membership. Golf carts are $10 per round and if I were a walker it is very walker friendly which is free. Green fee for outsiders is $40 on the weekends so if I play 3 times a month I cover my membership. I play about 15 rounds a month. Course is plenty challenging and makes you use all your clubs.
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Count your lucky star. Your monthly membership due is about two rounds of golf here, walking. Cart rate is averaging $15-$20 per seat per 18.
Final total plus County Tax, City Tax, user fee and other garbage fee.
Get a little out of hands for a retired person to try to golf more than 2 rounds per week.
Ideally, to get the health benefit is to walk the 18 every other day. One round per week can hardly change anything, rather be just walking in the neighborhood park.
For those who could golf every other day if they chose to do so, are the lucky ones.
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