I can’t quantify what kind of detriment slow play is to golf’s future, but I don’t think it’s helping. I don’t have a specific fix because it’s probably a mixture of the golf course management, player’s behaviors, etc.
Either way, it sucks!
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Here’s an interesting thought, My caveat to this thought is I am agreeing that I hate slow play.
We’re talking about growing the game and how it probably hinders that. The thought is, maybe it’s the guys new to golf that are creating the slow play and it’s only driving us guys crazy because we want them to hurry up so we can get our round in.
Sometimes we have to remember we all started there, which I’m sure most in this forum do. However if it’s a group of four new golfers, they might not know they’re doing anything wrong and just starting from and trying to do what everyone else is doing that they watched before them. Just food for thought, things that make you go hmmmmmm.
It is a sticky situation though, because it’s not like we’re going to go up to there group and try to see if they need us to give them the basics of course etiquette. This is where I believe the starters should be involved. If the starter at each course told the group, you have said amount of time to finish each hole. If you don’t finish in said amount of time, the group behind you will talk to you on the next tee box and you will need to let them play through. I think that could be a real easy fix. It puts the onus on the golf course. Nobody’s feeling get hurt and people go to each hole with an expectation of how long it should take.
Idk, maybe it would work maybe it wouldn’t.
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I will say this in response knowing it makes me sound elitist. Growing up there was a sort of learning the game hierarchy of courses in my town. It started with a par 3 course, then a real short goat track 9 hole course. Then up from there. We all did it. It helped us get better. It motivated us to want to play the other courses.
While I don’t think this sort of thing should be made official by any means, I do think people need to be more aware of what’s happening around them and where their level is at the moment. If you’ve never swung a club before or are shooting in the 60s and 70s for nine holes you shouldn’t be on an even remotely difficult packed golf course. It’s not doing anyone any favors, including the person who’s playing that way.
Every town has an off the beaten track course or two where people can go take the time to learn the game a little more before moving onto the busy, nicer, more difficult public courses.
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I think you’re right about the length and f time a round of folk takes being a detriment to growing the game. It’s a six hour commitment out of your day. It’s a shame the Scott’s didn’t think 12 holes would be perfect.
For those who think slow play is a big problem, what do you think an acceptable pace is? Do you think 4:15 is still too slow, or are you frequently having rounds lasting upwards of 5 hours?
Proper pace really depends on the course. Some places, 4:15 is moving along decently and rarely waiting on shots, other places that would be waiting on almost every tee. In general though, I think if a fairly busy full 18 hole course is coming in under 4.5 hours, then that’s doing alright.
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4:15 is fine. More than that is stretching it.
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I think over 4:00 is too long for about 95% of all golf courses.
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Good article I noticed today in my SoCal Golf Association magazine:
http://www.foremagazine.com/featured/less-is-more-if-you-space-them-they-will-come/
For city of LA courses, the move to 10 minute spacing instead of 8 minutes like they were doing has shaved 30-60 minutes off many peak times rounds. Hopefully this is here to stay.
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Could you forward this to a handful of courses around me?
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Lou Stagner just posted this on Twitter.
Something ALL courses should look at.
I tagged the 4 public courses I actually play here in town. 
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I do see slower play than at other times in my memory of golf. I think that is a cause of a few different things… 1. With Covid…more people playing than ever (just to get outside and be socially distant…and/or working more from home), many are new to the game…slower to play…less familiar with etiquette. 2. Golf is more popular than ever due to Tiger (still) and the new generation of pros…leading to more folks who are new to the game.
I actually try to avoid weekend golf…it’s just too slow most of the time. I really enjoy getting a quick 9 in 2-3 times a week during the week when I can play faster (and alone).
Not sure there is a cure…muni’s get paid by the number of folks they can get out there - so they don’t care as much about overcrowding tee times…who can blame them. Clubs are incentivized differently - so they have different results - with much less slow play (I assume).
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It happened before I became a member of my club that they classed 3 gullies next to the rough as out of bounds even though they are nowhere near the external fence. This was done to speed up play.
Public golf in SoCal can be painfully slow. Case-in-point, a public, executive, 18 hole course by me has 8 minute tee times and allows fivesomes. The round there can take 4:15 which sounds good in theory but on a course like that it is PAINFULLY slow.
I have been kicking the tires of private courses over the last few years because I am done with 4:30-6 hour rounds. I would either (a) gladly pay more for a 2:30-3:30 round at this point; or (b) if I can’t afford private golf, I would gladly pay more in greens fees if they spaced out the groups between 12-15 minutes. I realize we can value different things about golf but the ability to get into a rhythm and get around a course in a “reasonable” amount of time is high on my list at the moment.
My speed on the 9 hole course is consistent at 2 hrs. Slow, but I realize I’m a beginner so I invite people coming up behind me to play through. What DOES slow the play from Sept. on is the huge amount of leaves on the course! If you have to spend 3 minutes twice a hole to locate your ball, it gets ridiculous.
This probably belongs in an ‘Inconsiderate golfer thread’, but I don’t think we have one.
RANT: To the 2 some (1 in black, 1 in red) that played ahead of me today. I caught up to yous on #5 this morning. Thanks for …
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Playing from the back tees (6850 yds.)
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Not letting me play thru. I know they’re were 2 - 4 somes ahead of you, but by the time you got to 18 tee, 1 group already received their food in clubhouse & the other was heading to cars with their clubs.
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It was a lovely 3:40 round for me as a single. (insert sarcasm here) You couldn’t know if them 4somes woulda let me play thru, but I bet they would’ve
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It wasn’t fun watching you guys shoot 120 & 122 from back tees (yeah I heard them add up scores), as they blocked parking area to 18th green complex after I hit in.
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I did see almost every shot you hit and the ensuing 3:00 search & rescue for your balls.
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It was a thrill to get ready to hit and see ya’s make 100 yd circles (after you had driven out of sight) a few dozen times. Only to drop a ball where ya felt like.
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Can’t be sure if I fixed any of your pitch marks on greens and I fixed plenty (I don’t think there were too many greens you two hit)
I could go on & might add more later but, what the heck, I did post a more normal score today. See write about you round thread later. It was a great weather day, course was beautiful too. And I’ll probably find some of your lost balls next time I play there.
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Oh man we need a rant thread. I love that idea
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I like the idea of stretching out tee times. At the Old Course at St. Andrews, the starter does not let you tee off on 1 until the group ahead is on the green. Although the idea of stretching tee times seems counterintuitive, the USGA data cited in this thread shows otherwise.
I also like either the starter or the pro in the shop mentioning the expected pace of play as well as a few tips to keep moving–playing ready golf, if carts are restricted to the paths, taking several clubs with you for your next shot that landed 100 yards away from the path, etc.
Although I like going faster than 4:15, I think that pace of play is a good compromise overall, especially given differing skill levels. If the course can show that the pace of play should be faster, then use that, but realize enforcement efforts must be stepped up–if nothing else, POP clocks or signs at intervals on the course telling you how much time your round should have taken by that point. Some golfers, especially beginners, have no idea of a proper POP, and while I may be aggravated at them for playing slowly, the course must bear some responsibility if it doesn’t advise players of an expected pace of play.
Here’s an odd idea I’ve been kicking around in my head lately that was really crystalized by coming up on a twosome yesterday on the eighth tee that at one point in the round was at least three holes ahead of me for a nine-hole round: as cheap as technology has gotten, install cameras spaced around the course that the pro shop can access. In many instances, a camera could view both the green for one hole and the tee boxes for the next. A decent startup expense but the course could then reduce the number of marshalls, dispatching one to talk to a group that was falling too far behind.
What might such cameras pick up? Well, in yesterday’s round, that one of the twosome in front of me spent at least two minutes lying on the green apparently attempting to get the line of his putt. And that this fool after three putting from 25 feet then went to the next tee and had to come back to the green to retrieve a club he’d left behind.
That’s the kind of nonsense that golf courses and other golfers should not tolerate.
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I played in 4:15 at a municipal course in a twosome on Friday, with a 2pm tee time… We waited on every tee box, as did the group ahead of us… The two groups ahead of them were both fairly slow but the front group stayed ahead of the back group, and the back group kept up with the front group… basically, it was a slow moving blockade where there wasn’t room to play through and both groups likely did not see anything wrong with their pace of play.
It was frustrating for me, but I don’t really blame the people on the course. We’ve normalized the 4 hour round, and thus a 4:15 round isn’t bad! Until we make a concerted effort to have people play faster, nothing is going to change… and I recently played a cart path only round with one other person (two carts) and we barely made it around in 3.5 hours, so there are definitely factors that can slow down a round…
Most golf courses are linear and only have 18 holes, so it’s hard to route people differently… My parents course in Idaho has 27, and they rotate the “18 of the day” and have 9 available for people who just want to play 9 holes… play is usually a decent pace, so it’s pretty nice overall… but my home course doesn’t have the land to add another 9 holes (nor does it have the membership to fund it).
It’s a weird issue, overall… you want to grow the game, so you want to be welcoming to everyone. Including slow players. Some times it just stinks when you get caught behind a slow group and lose all momentum in your round.
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Our group plays at a heavily played muni and can usually be done in 4:00. The town has contracted out to a 3rd party and they do a good job rangering the course to keep things moving along.
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