Bomb and Gouge...?

Strategy
#7

Well, I’m pretty sure I tore the cartilage in my back trying to build speed… and I’m still planning on chasing distance.

I think there is a certain distance for courses where you gain a competitive advantage… for my course it’s a 305 yard carry on our hardest par five. It’s a downhill, then back uphill with a tough green… second shot (after laying up to the end of the downhil fairway) is blind up a hill… and then you have 100 yards in because you can’t hit 3 wood as the hill is too steep. I hate this hole.

The strategy I’m working on is 120 mph club head speed and I’ll just carry the hill and have a 200 yard (likely 7 iron at that swing speed) shot in.

It’s just one example from the course I play, but if I get there, it will save me at least one stroke a round and remove a ton of variability. (If you hit it through the fairway, you are in a ditch or 6 inch Bermuda… it’s a dumb hole).

Of course, that type of gain will roll over to every other hole… I’d have 100 yards or less into most greens and it would make one par four possibly reachable.

That also helps reduce my variability in training. If my wedges and driver are honed, they will cover the majority of my shots.

My girls aren’t interested in golf yet, but I’m going to teach them to swing as hard as they can and then worry about control.

Them swinging at 110 in high school will be very fun.

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#8

The other “old school” thought process has always been to hit something short just to get it play. To me that reasoning doesn’t hold up. On a day that I am all over the course with a driver then I’ll be all over the course with all my other clubs, just further away from the hole. On my course I only hit something less than driver on holes that have a run-out or carry that brings a hazard or tree into play (carrying though the corner of a dogleg, fairway narrowed by bunkers that I can’t carry, the forced carry is longer than my driver carry).

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#9

I used to take the “safe” approach and try to hit to a number I liked because I didn’t want to be at an odd distance (40-80 yards). Since I’ve read some stuff from Jon and some podcasts I’ve listened to, I’ve realized get the distance, unless it puts you in trouble. I’ve started seeing my score dropping, especially now that I’m getting better out of the tee box.

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#10

I used to play with these same myths in mind. We all owe Mark Broadie a lot of credit. He has really peeled back the layers of what efficient scoring looks like.

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#11

I think one of the biggest takeaways and something all amateur golfers need to figure out is; if you want to get better, you gotta have a fiddle in the band.

No, wait… that’s playing in Texas.

Seriously, though… one of my biggest goals last season was to get confident and long off the tee. I have to find a reason to not hit driver… on my home course there are two non driver holes, and one id like to have a discussion on.

Hitting driver as far as YOU possibly can is going to lower scores. I think it makes sense to chase as much distance as you can reasonably control.

I also believe chasing distance forces you to improve your driver swing… simply because small errors amplify the faster you are going.

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#12

Spot on! I couldn’t agree more.

#13

I might phrase it different, but I think its the same. Improving your full swing will give you more distance, and more consistency too, with all of your clubs.

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#14

In a way it’s sad, because you’re not playing courses the way they were designed. But if you want to shoot your lowest scores… bombs away with driver and see what happens! Nothing worse than taking out 4 iron to “play it safe” then hook it or hang it out to the right and get blocked by a tree in the deep rough with 170 to the hole. If you miss with driver and you’re up by the green, you can pitch out sideways and still be near the green for an up and down.

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#15

This pod was a great listen!

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#16

Thanks, Lou - welcome to the party!

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#17

While I completely agree with the statistics behind closer = better there surely must be some penalty for being in the rough vs fairway. What would the yardage difference be for it to be better off in the rough vs fairway, e.g. if you’re only 15 yards further up in the rough vs the fairway 15 yards back is it still worth being longer? Also, is that nr for hackers different since we usually don’t have as much skill / strength to get out of the rough as the pro’s do.

#18

It’s about 25-30 yards (in light rough). So hitting a drive 250 in the rough would be equivalent to around 220-225 in fairway.

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#19

The one time I still “play to a number” is when taking medicine…

Once again I am usually weighing the benefit of trying to advance an extra 50 yds vs the risk of failing on the recovery shot

If i feel 100% confident I can punch it out to 100 yds, I don’t risk losing club face control trying to get closer

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#20

While going through decade I do see situations that just suggest I need to improve my skills

For instance fairway bunkers… when looking at the stats of how penal fw bunkers are, I know I am way behind on that skill…

As opposed to saying “that’s the wrong strategy for me” I have started to realize “woah, I am way behind relative to my handicap on that skill”

#21

This chart (from Lou Stagner) suggests for tour pros the difference between fairway and rough is anywhere from 30-80 yards depending on the length of the hole.

Problem is if the premium on hitting the fairway is 40 yards, if you’re giving up 20 yards by laying up with 3-wood you’d have to hit a whopping 50% more fairways to make the trade off worth while.

Also I think the difference between fairway and rough is less for us amateurs than pros just because the rough we typically face is less penal. I tracked all my holes this year, and I’m only scoring 0.1 strokes better from the fairway than the rough.

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#22

I think amateurs face a significantly wider variable of rough… my course has six inch burmuda in certain spots… it’s unplayable.

#23

And current Arccos data is showing amateur golfers really don’t hit fairways more often with their 3w than their driver, so if you keep moving down the bag for that fairway, that distance premium becomes even further away.

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#24

Thanks, interesting with quite a big spread depending on the length of the hole. The 350 yard trade-off seems interesting (214 vs 293).

#25

Don’t want to hijack the thread, but how many of you enjoy ‘bomb & gouge’ courses? One of my faves is a “hit it there” course, what we used to call a “shotmakers” course. True three-shot par5s and short-mid iron tees due to angles, not mileage. Driver on 6 holes, max. As pretty (& challenging!) as they come.
That said, I enjoy pulling out ‘Heid’ as much as anyone (and do at every chance) and my game probably favors longer tracks.
Your thoughts?

#26

I like bomb & gouge courses but that’s just because they fit my style of play and I usually score well at them.