Balancing Tournaments: A Handicapping Thread

General Discussion
#9

To me it’s very simple:

In any given net match (1v1), the player with less variance in their score will win more often - this is almost always the lower handicap. The handicap system favours lower handicaps in match play. This has been documented countless times despite the anecdotal objections from lower handicap players.

However, In a large field net tournament, things change, The winner is likely to be someone with larger variance in scoring (usually high handicappers). Imagine a net tournament with a million players. Even if everyone’s handicap is legit, the winner will almost certainly be a high handicap who shoots the round of their life and posts net 15-under or something ridiculous like that. A high handicapper is far more likely to shoot exceptional scores than a low handicapper.

The flip side is that the worst net score in a tournament is very likely to be a high handicapper as well, but there’s no real difference between finishing middle of the pack or last in an amateur events.

3 Likes
#10

Nailed it!!

The system is perfect for four ball imo (believe you use 80% of course handicap in that format)

It just doesn’t scale well in the larger events. To @Bigdadenergy points, the large mga events feel a lot like a charity scramble to me because of this dynamic… that doesn’t bother me, it just is what it is. I play in these events to network at the club, there is no “competitive juice” for me.

Now get me a $50 four ball nassau that is well handicapped and I will be in the competitive zone!

#11

I think it just serves a different crowd at the club…

Most of the sandbaggers would trade their gambit to actually be able to strike the ball like you @Bigdadenergy

#12

This is absolutely impossible under the new WHS handicap system, with soft and hard caps on handicaps.

I’ve read studies that suggest the low handicap players get rewarded in similar percentages to their participation. But there will always be a lot more 15 to 20 handicaps than 0 to 5, so those more populous groups will generally take home a larger share of any purse.

Agree completely. The problem comes with the aforementioned numbers of players in a group. Do you want to make up flights with similar numbers of players, or specific ranges of handicaps?

But is this fair? Just taking my home club as an example, a Championship flight might really only have 4 or 5 guys who can realistically win, and a handful of posers who think they can compete but really can’t. A flight of 15 to 20 handicappers might have 20 players. Do you suggest that the Championship flight should make more money for beating 3 other guys, while the mid-handicap net flight winner should make less, when he needed to beat 4 or 5 times as many real competitors?
I don’t think there’s a single “right” format for larger field events. I do think the suggestion by the USGA to use 90% of handicap for larger fields helps make it more fair for all. I do think that flighting events helps, but comes with its own issues. Just for background, I’m a 4.6 HI, I’ve worked on my clubs Tournament Committee, on the Handicap Committee, and I’m beginning what could be a “retirement career” in rules officiating.

6 Likes
#13

I think I have said this before. Our Association keeps a USGA and the pro also keeps tournament handicaps to prevent sandbagging. We just had the first round of the Club Championship and also the Age Group Championships and it goes something like this. The Age Group Championships goes by obviously…Under 50, 50-60, 61-69 and 70 and over. That is done using your Association Handicap. One round! The Club Championship is 2 rounds. It is the Top 8 Gross scores from the Back Tees regardless of age group…2 rounds. Best Gross score wins! I actually think that’s pretty fair. Pretty tough to Sandbag and you are not allowed to enter your score into the GHIA…the pro does that for all association tourneys. He keeps all association scoring on an exel spread so like 2 weeks ago I played a guy who is a 17 in GHIA system, but in the association tourneys…he is a 10.5. Go figure. I played him also in matchplay and beat him 4 and 2. If we didn’t use the association caps I lose 1 up. So yea it is a big difference when people don’t report correctly. I mean you could legit win 4 figures throughout the season…do you think it matters to some people if they say they are a 20 and then play to a 7? So yea it’s a problem and it’s up to your association to manage it…Just my 2 cents

#14

I also don’t see how flighted tournaments would be any better for sandbagging. You’ll still have the 2-cappers masquerading as 8-cappers so they can play in a lower flight.

#15

because we keep tourney caps…we don’t go by USGA for them…your USGA could be 30…so what…your association tourney cap is 10. That’s what we go by.

#16

The best net event I play in is a guy’s bday party. He handicaps the event himself and has 25 years of data from his buddies at that course… individual net stroke play with calcutta the hour before tee off

He plays in a monthly league that 80% of the the participants play in and he keeps handicaps for that league (only league scores count, I believe there are some minor ESC adjustments as well)

New comers are pretty severely penalized… you won’t have an opportunity to win until you have played 2 or 3 years in the event…

Also there are two random payouts for 1) middle of the pack finisher and 2) 3rd to last which keeps people pretty honest in terms of playing the rounds out

I would say that the winner is almost always playing the best round in the last 12-24 months vs their card and winning score is really consistently something like net 66 (4 under)

Edit* there are mulligans associated with beer drinking so most players will get 2-4 mulligans so the 4 under par net feels about right from my perspective

1 Like
#17

I don’t see this alot… I see lots of 8’s playing as 12 or 14’s though

Edit* this may happen more in tourneys with huge Calcuttas… i tend to stay away as i think this is where almost all the egregious cheating takes place

2 Likes
#18

I assume you are exaggerating for effect but how does someone end up with a big gap between their official handicap and their tournament handicap and not get shunned as a cheater?

2 Likes
#19

There are groups, clubs, leagues, whatever, with a culture of cheating. There are others with a culture of honesty.

7 Likes
#20

Isn’t there a limit on how much a HCI can go up in a single year to stop this? In the UK we now have HCI’s over 28 and I find the stableford competitions are now all won by players with higher handicaps. I remember a guy I was playing paring a 4 and receiving 3 shots. Net hole in 1!! I at best get 1 shot per hole, no chance of competing.

My main playing partner is a solid golfer but without fail has at least one 8 and one 9 on very round. The rest all 4/5/6’s This makes him almost unbeatable in stableford as he plays off 34!!!

For me the HCI should go back to being capped at 28.

1 Like
#21

Yes. The new system limits how much handicap can go up. There is a soft and hard cap applied as poorer scores are entered.

Fyi there is also an exceptional score reduction in handicap as well. Beating cap by 7 reduces cap by 1 and beating by 10 reduces cap by 2.
Or something like that.

No more separately notated tournament rounds that stick in the handicap calculation for a year, as in the old system.

1 Like
#22

Most of it is guys who magically can muster up a gross of 76 77 in tourney play and their weekday play is 85. This happened alot, hence how our association keeps people fairly honest. It was happening with regularity a few years ago. Hence a in house club tourney cap and u’re usga. 2 separate entities. Alot of people establish usga and then play in county events. I don’t know what to tell you, but for the group of guys like me…it was frustrating. Like I said I just had my QF match play that I didn’t even want to play, but I did to prove a point. I won 4&2 with tourney cap, basically I only had to give the guy 2 aside. Without that, I would have lost 1up…I would have had to give him 4 and 3. That’s the difference. I would never accuse anyone of fooling around. As a matter of fact, in a regular match I would never accept more than 1 aside from anyone. But it is amazing to see a 15 hit 9 fairways, hit 7 gir, no 3 putts when cash is on the line and they go well I just concentrate more…you might get away with that 2 outta 10 rounds, not 6 or 7 outta 10.

#23

If they are doing this, they are the exact opposite of honest.

#24

Hence, OUR association solving the issue…most of the people, including me, won’t throw people under the bus…it causes serious arguments and leaves open wounds. Tourney handicaps solved the issue by removing the temptation…you understand this? Again, USGA, does make assumptions people are all inherently honest…it’s self reporting. Do you believe it’s a good system and that people are inherently honest…It’s the best we have at the moment. Look, there are PGA players that have issues with honesty…it’s at all levels.

#25

IMO, the better solution to guys cheating is to kick them out of the club or not let them compete.

1 Like
#26

Ideally, but proving someone is cheating can be difficult in some cases. Some players generally play better better in competition My best round was second day of the club championship when leading by 1 shot from the first day, went on to win by 6 and have never played as well again! Was I cheating (my handicap did drop by 3 after this but would still have won at that level) or did I just rise to the occasion?

Its sad that we have to have this discussion. For my club we now require a minimum number of cards to be submitted and to have played in a minimum number of monthly events before you can enter a ‘board’ competition to try and keep it honest and I feel it works.

1 Like
#27

Outliers happen but not so often that there is a need for a handicap that is meaningfully different than the every day handicap. If someone has so many outliers that this ends up being necessary, the odds he’s posting honest scores to get that higher handicap are astronomical.

1 Like
#28

Unfortunately, I think the reality is you have to have meaningful rounds in competition to have a relevant competition handicap… which creates some issues, but it’s fine.

I played in a gross club championship event, and failed to qualify… had I played in the net event the next day and shot 2 rounds in the 70s, I’m sure people would have called me a sandbagger, even though I’ve posted 2 rounds in the 70s this season… I don’t play much weekend golf, and not everyone knows me.

It’s too bad, I’d love to be more confident when traveling that other people are playing to an honest handicap.