23 handicap, 2 wedges? 3? 4?

Strategy
#33

I vacillate between 3-4 wedges, dumping the 5W if I go 4 wedges. Not thrilled with this 60 I found, but OTOH, it was like 5 bucks.

Likely different story if I did the Club Champion-ish thing. If I think I need the 220-ish shot w/some roll, I bring the 5W. There’s a few holes at Wortham where it comes in handy, and the 3I just isn’t enough.

Other courses, meh. Try 4 wedges. I can open my SW and really try to flop it, but it’s not very replicable. Sure is fun when it works though. I look a lot better than I actually am.

#34

Isn’t this contradicting your claim that pros’ don’t care what’s in their bag if they now prefer a customized tool? I think some care deeply about certain aspects or certain clubs whilst others don’t care (DJ couldn’t even answer the question of what putter he was using).

It may well be for mental comfort, but you simply cannot say Bryson plays a 4.5 degree loft driver because that’s what he was given. I may of misunderstood your point but pro’s spend a lot of thought on their ‘tools’ to get the best out of whatever they are being paid to wield.

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#35

Touring pros could play us with a shovel, a bat and pool cue and scorch us (metaphors)! Golf professionals…not so much. Some can play well above the average bear, but they are being paid to run and manage a facility and believe me when I tell you it’s a thankless, difficult job because you have to deal with customers and a never ending line of increased expenses! You better be passionate. But, back to the the Touring Pros clubs. 100% they are weighed, measured, ground etc to very specific specifications. There is a ton of thought, blood, blisters, sweat etc that goes into the lofts, lie, grind, flex, grip, face…etc you name it. AND don’t believe for 1 second that DJ couldn’t tell you what putter he is, was, or anticipates using!

#36

A good craftsman could make any tools work, but, customized , familiar tools will allow the best possible result.
A good golfer could play with any set of golf clubs, been proven that many times, even a right handed golfer could golf with a southpaw’s set and vise versa. They may not play their best game, without their own equipment.
It is not contradicting, if you pay attention.

#37
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#38

Is the quote I am paying attention to! I may well be misunderstanding you, but to then say that customized tools will allow the best possible result just seems to contradict the idea that they wouldn’t care. Of course give Rory worse clubs and me great ones and he beats me every single time. He has talent!

#39

I don’t believe that for 1 second! Just advertising for TM! He’ll know exactly what he will be playing when he finds something that works. I use a TM putter too! I know exactly who designed it, the type and model. But I can tell you 100% it is definitely a TM. :rofl: Remember, they use a lot of prototypes, not much off the shelf. They may give it a name if he can convert some putts with it. I have 4 putters, I changed from a Wilson 8802, to a Ping Anser that I used for 30+ years except for the few rounds in the mid90s I tried a broomstick. 3 years ago I went to my current TM. Once I make the change, I don’t think I’m going back.

#40

Admittedly, isn’t being a go-along to get-along doofus part of DJ’s brand? Him and his brother? Sort of the anti-Bryson, as it were. I wouldn’t be surprised that he was trolling the media there.

As to @MJTortella’s points, couldn’t agree more on the ‘at their level, it’s all mental.’ In as much as I’ve talked to tour pros and talented (like NCAA stars/US Amateur/Open sectional competitors. Which hasn’t been much.

But different guys prepare mentally in different ways. Bryson needs to know the atmospheric profile between him and the hole. Other guys try to set up to where they’re comfortable making X shot, which can be done through practicing, as well as using that practice to say, “this’d be a whole lot easier with Y loft and Z grind, vs what I’m trying to make work now.”

Other guys get blackout drunk after making the cut, then make 7 of 9 birdies on the front on Saturday. Unconscious achievement and emotional management looks pretty important, however you prepare.

The WITB blurbs are still pretty interesting, though.

#41

Loving this conversation. Are we now coming full circle here? If at top level its all mental, which I agree with in that a lot of the mental approach comes down to confidence. And having clubs that you trust to deliver is a big part of that confidence. I certainly agree that tour pros can make any club do anything (I remember Tiger doing a display where he hit every club 150 yards with amazingly tight dispersion) but for those less talented is it then better to have more tools? If my 43 goes 110 and my 54 goes 80, does having a 50 make it easier to hit a target from 95? (at the moment I just adjust my swing). I’m not talented, shoot in the 80’s with a best of 77. I suspect its very much horses for courses in the same way some golfers are scientists and some are artists.

So 12 months after the original question, I have no idea what the answer is!!! Thats golf.

2 Likes
#42

My best scoring round ever was a 67 on a Par 71 course played from the tips at 6680 yds with aTM burner driver, a Cleveland persimmon 3W, a TM 19* Raylor, Spalding BirdonBall musclebacks, a Self Ground Wilson R90 64* an my Ping Anser. My best round was with the same clubs playing a very difficult layout from the tips at 7150yds Par 72 and I shot a 74. I’ve broken par a exactly 17x in 37 years most recently a 69 this year for the first time in like 12 years. I took my 2iron and replaced it with that lob wedge 34 years ago. I personally have made and turned that club into a green side weapon and I will continue to use it to lob over trouble. Now when I started scoring like that, I was playing every day. I was thinking clearly, managing my game, had youth on my side. What didn’t I have? This new equipment and new golf balls. Think about that?

#43

I love it. I agree…the answer is…there is no RIGHT answer…just a bunch of opinions. Golf is artistic, choose your own brushes, style, technique, inspiration, and colors. Just because person X carries 3 wedges doesn’t mean that is best for person Y (regardless of handicap).

Are there suggestions we should all consider…sure. But go “dig it out of the dirt” and see what works. How often you change clubs is the same conversation…there is no RIGHT answer…just a bunch of opinions.

Some folks like to make one club do many things, some don’t. To each their own. Golf is truly an individual sport that can’t be won…just played.

3 Likes
#44

Not sure what your slight aggression is for, I have no problem with your view and am not trying to change your mind, just stating my, slightly different view point. As to your comment, It would be tough to have ‘This New Equipment’ unless you had also managed to invent a time machine, are you saying you would have chosen older equipment if more modern clubs were available and if you could get a benefit from them??? Maybe your best would have been even better? We will never know of course.

Great golfers of the past were great golfers and they didn’t have ‘This New Equipment’ yet modern players use modern equipment. They are also great players. Would Snead or Hogan be gaming a Stealth Driver etc? Some players are more tuned in than others on what they use no doubt, a lot of it about confidence and a lot about being paid to use TM or Calloway or whatever but ultimately thought goes into shaft, grip etc. Must be a reason.

1 Like
#45

I apologize if you think I made an “aggressive statement”… I was just pointing out that my best scoring ever was done with clubs circa 1988-1995. I was also practicing & playing golf everyday, we were using Balata Balls and there were only a few people who were tracking stuff like dispersion rates …LOL and I kept a notebook!. When you don’t practice, you don’t score well…period, now that I have become a predominantly 1x a week player, I still hold a single digit hdcp, but I’m no where near working as hard on my swing, short game and putter with the verve I used to, NOT EVEN CLOSE! I’m certain, yester years players would be using and taking advantage of the tools of today… I’m certain that even Mr Hogan’s swing would be different using todays clubs and using today’s ball! Not for nothing, I can tell you 100% the difference in today’s game is the ball! Here’s a tale from this past Saturday, I shot 10 over par and I probably had the best ball striking round I’ve had in a while. #1-missed a 2ft putt for par, #2–missed a 10ft birdie putt, #3 missed a 3 ft birdie putt, #4 missed a 4ft par putt, #5 missed an 8ft birdie putt, #6 3 putted from 30 ft, #10 missed 4ft par putt…shall I go on! Don’t roll the ball, ya don’t score! I’m going to use a quote here from Mr. Hogan, “Play your Game!, Don’t worry about what I hit!” I find a LW to be a very important weapon, others may not. What is the great equalizer… the flat stick. Wanna score? If you can hit 67% GIR, keep the 6missed greens to not alot of damage with Penalties and keep the putts per round about 28ish…Do the math. the math won’t lie. One other minor point on equipment especially irons, my 7 iron is 38*, I went for a fitting last year and the 2, 7 irons I hit… 1 was TM 32* the other was Callaway 28*. Of course they went further!.. follow my train of thought there!

2 Likes
#46

May have been me being sensitive (in the UK, day after the Super Bowl is always a tough one). Get what you are saying and I guess that’s where it is so individual now. I think of the ‘holy trinity’ - mental game on point, consistent swing, right equipment. And hope the putter bails you out when things are going a bit astray (Brooks at the WM is a great example). Also love Hogan’s quote which is why there isn’t a right or wrong on this point of view. You do you, as they say. I have some ball strike issues which I’m working on and some gapping issues (PW is 43.5, next up is SW at 54) Also would like a little more distance so, yeah, I’m going to look into new irons via an independent fitting and maybe add a ‘gap wedge’.

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#47

LOL, better check if he has a contract with the putter, putter is a separate endorsement from the irons and the drivers, unless the OEM has a “whole bag” endorsement deal with the player.
Jokes aside; It is what works for them that week. No one is sleeping with their putter unless with endorsement obligation, ( someone jokingly said that Ben Crenshaw used to sleep with little Ben, an 8802 style putter he used since high school ).

#48

You’ll like this quote from Hogan, channelling his inner Franz Liszt:

If I miss one day’s practice I know it;
if I miss two days the spectators know it;
and if I miss three days the world knows it.
– Ben Hogan

3 Likes
#49

I only practice what averages out to 45 minutes a day today, that does not include any rounds on the course. It includes exercises, stretching, swing honing and some putting. It also includes the 1 hour a week I spend before a round chipping on the practice green. I used to practice and or play 7 hours a day everyday except Sunday. I know what I’m capable of, I know I get aggravated with myself when I don’t execute what I’m capable of, but for me it’s the repetitions that tell me what wedges I need in the bag, what the distances are on my weapons to a pretty good approximation. In the end, you will find, as far as playing the game to your expected skill level you only will get out of it what you put in. So that’s why I don’t get too upset with myself anymore. I will hit a 4 or 5 really good shots, probably about 5 or 6 bad ones and a lot of meh in a round! So to answer the original poster who is a 23 hdcp….practice a lot, take notes, you will get better, then make an educated decision about what works best for you in your bag.

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#50

True, I agree whole heartedly.
However, a normal guy with a full time job and perhaps family and other obligations could never put in the time to practice like Ben did.
It take most of your time, your energy and your financial resources to be dedicated to this game like Ben did.
I’m ok with being a weekend warrior since realizing ( from 40 years ago) that I could not devote all of my time to this game dreaming to make a living from playing it.
I will get more enjoyment out of this game treating it as a pass time. With the good shots and the bad ones.
The pursue of a better game is endless. The OEM all knew about this behavior since day one of this game. You can tell from their marketing slogan; 15 yards longer, more forgiving, lower trajectory, higher trajectory with low spin… just about anything they could say to give reason for the golfer to buy new equipment.
I don’t practice much when I play more, my practice will be on the golf course.
Used to hit hundreds of range balls a day ( raining days on the weekends with 5-10 jumbo buckets ). Those hits off the mat caused some health issue later on in life.

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#51

How I learned to be a picker…

I laughed my ass off, reading Adam Young, and realizing, “I’m supposed to take a divot?!” WTF?!

So it goes. I’m trying to get better now though. On the arm pain, AIUI, graphite iron shafts are supposed to really help with that. I know my arms hurt after a range session, but I’m about at 50, and that’s what ibuprofen is for…

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#52

To be fair, iron play is, supposed to take a divot, not a crater, but a shallow divot to encourage deploying the correct loft and spin.
I used to be taking no divot or a small one and always had this little tail to the right. That was when my index was hanging around a 13-15. I’d be okay with it since it was dependable but, I did not have the length to use the fade. Like Tiger joked once, those “weak ass slice “.
My iron flight is mostly straight after taking a shallow divot from the base of the golf ball extend 3”-4” along the target line. If you could search a video from Vijay Sigh going through his practice with irons, he basically carved out long beautiful divot with precision, as one of the better iron player on Tour back when. His iron play rivals T.W.
Ben Hogan had the distance so he was looking for more control, not the case for the most of the amateurs.
As for taking pain medication, none of them are good for long term use. I know a few guys who’d swallow a few Ibuprofen with their coffee before teeing off, Caffeine is also not good for one’s game.
If you must, Tylenol arthritis formula is safer for your liver and kidneys.
Of course, if we can afford it, should model after Bob Hope, a full body massage after each round; that will delay the damaging effect from golf. I had the shiatsu massage belt and a large thera-gun massage unit at home. Can’t bite the bullet to get a massaging chair for $5-8K
After 40+ years of golf , and practice off the mat in the Winter… finally had to see a sports injury therapist specialized in spine and shoulder. Aging had a lot to do with the surfacing pain, from years of over use. All those crushed drives and crisp long irons…